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Actors union will join writers on strike, shutting down Hollywood
- nemo44x 3y agoWithout scripts how can the actors act anyhow?
- geodel 3y agoWatching Hollywood movies it seems they can do it most of the time.
- jfengel 3y agoThey had old scripts in the pipeline. A number of projects in the works will be halted immediately. TFA cites actors not doing publicity for projects that are in the can and awaiting release. The film can still be shown, but with less promotion is expected to do less well.
- wnc3141 3y agoI think this helps disempower scabs. Plenty of non union people would love for s studio to pic of their script, or the studio might pull an old script out of the bin
- phpisthebest 3y agoScene for Scene remakes would be preferred to them ruining good classics by "reimaging them" for the modern era with new scripts
- no_wizard 3y agoNow this could actually force the Hollywood studios back to the negotiating table in earnest. Its one thing to outsource writers, its not easy (I'd say rare to impossible) to outsource the actors themselves.
- tibbydudeza 3y agoTikTok :).
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- Animats 3y agoThe previous Writers Guild strike, in 2007-2008, resulted in a big boom in "reality" shows.
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- norwalkbear 3y agoDigital actors are the future
- ecf 3y agoI sure hope so.
- anotherhue 3y agoUnions are a critical counterbalance to the power of corporations. Hardly perfect, but we'll be sorry when they're gone.
- robotnikman 3y agoWith the major advances in AI threatening to further take power from the many and give it to the few, I definitely agree.
- gruez 3y agoUnions only work because they can threaten to withhold labor. If AI takes off the and AI replace workers, they'll be unemployed. Unions aren't going to help situation.
- superb_dev 3y agoSure, but AI is very far from being able to replace writers and actors.
- leotravis10 3y agoConsidering that actors (live action and voice) are constantly asked to hand over their rights and likeness to companies creating AI and other machine-learning ways (1), it's surely worth fighting for so agreed here. (1) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34701086 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34701086
- satvikpendem 3y agoNo, open source AI is booming. It's set to be a more democratizing force than anything, when some kid in on their laptop can make an entire feature length film using just the ideas from their brain rather than having to hire people to produce, direct, act in, and edit their production.
- SilasX 3y agoAnd a critical counterbalance against automating labor. If you want that.
- AlexandrB 3y ago> “In that ground breaking AI proposal, they proposed that our background performers should be able to be scanned, get paid for one day’s pay, and their company should own that scan, their image, their likeness, and should be able to use it for the rest of eternity in any project they want with no consent and no compensation,” he said. “So if you think that’s a ground breaking proposal I suggest you think again.” I mean... it is ground breaking. Just in the worst possible way.
- SergeAx 3y agoPlease let me know when the next ML-generated movies are available: * Kill Bill 3 with Uma Thurman by Quentin Tarantino * Moon Race saga by James Cameron with 45 y.o. Clint Eastwood * H.P.Lovecraft screen adaptation by Guillermo del Toro * Alexander The Great biopic by Peter Jackson in three or five installments * Master and Margarita by Steven Spielberg with 35 y.o. Angelina Jolie as Margarita Add your dream movies in replies!
- SergeAx 3y agoI don't really understand that idea of scanning live extras. Today they can be entirely ML-generated. They actually are since Titanic and LoTR.
- stelliosk 3y agoThe Simpsons: Meep https://youtu.be/kTxeM_s8-D0 https://youtu.be/kTxeM_s8-D0
- Kye 3y agoJet Li famously turned down The Matrix because he was worried about what they might do with his motion capture in the future. Previous discussion of the topic right here on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27852017 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27852017
- solardev 3y agoIt probably won't be long before algorithms can mocap just from the recorded footage and then transpose those movements to arbitrary 3D models :/ That doesn't take away from the beauty of martial arts though. You can have an exact definition of all the moves you'll ever do, but still spend decades refining them. For actors though... yeah I can see why they're worried
- tibbon 3y agoDo we know how the unions are asking people to interact with media companies, streaming services and films? Would they prefer people avoid them, cancel services, and avoid buying tickets for the moment as a form of picket line? I don't cross picket lines, and would be more than happy to stop my consumption of these things if it helps send a message.
- m-ee 3y agoA writer on addressed this on a podcast. They said maintain business as usual unless you see a call to action from the writers/union. A large shift in response to such a request sends a much stronger message than a slow trickle of cancellations.
- ChrisArchitect 3y agoThe last time both were on strike was 1960. How did Hollywood cope back then? Less shows/different landscape obviously....was that the birth of the rerun? haha
- falcolas 3y agoGiven the explicit "we'll just wait for them to lose their housing" messaging from the Hollywood executives... Good on SAG-AFTRA. This can only increase the bargaining power of both groups.
- vkou 3y agoWaiting until striking workers run out of money is absolutely gentille, when it comes to the history of strike-breaking.
- gruez 3y ago"absolutely gentille" and "strike-breaking" seems like weird ways to describe studios refusing to accept the union's offer, as if they're expected to accept whatever that the union offers.
- falcolas 3y agoThe studios haven't even come to the negotiation table in the 70 days of the WGA's strike. Their entire plan is waiting them out so they'll accept a worse offer.
- gruez 3y ago>The studios haven't even come to the negotiation table in the 70 days of the WGA's strike. What's the point of coming to the negotiation table when the other side's demands is so far from what you're willing to offer? >Their entire plan is waiting them out so they'll accept a worse offer. It takes two to make a deal. By refusing to accept a deal, both sides' are hoping to inflict damage to the other side so they can get what they want. You might have your own opinions about which side has the more reasonable offer and is therefore in the "right", but both sides are essentially trying to do the same thing.
- Arrath 3y ago> What's the point of coming to the negotiation table when the other side's demands is so far from what you're willing to offer? Uh, does this situation not fit the dictionary definition of negotiation? Such a gulf in demands/desires/position between the sides necessitates negotiation and compromise. The institution saying "lol fuck them, we'll starve 'em out" is monstrous in that context, imo.
- ilamont 3y agoFor consumers, now is a good time to evaluate paid streaming services. The content pipeline will be rationed and extended, leading to a decline in new programming. HBO/"Max" was already looking shaky, and we've noticed Apple and Amazon are increasingly plastered with paid options.
- dangerboysteve 3y agoThis is where the broadcasters and streamers opt for more unscripted TV and foreign dubbed content.
- chongli 3y agoConsumers are savvier than ever about that stuff. People already demonstrate a strong willingness to hop on and off subscriptions for different services based on specific shows they want to watch. I can imagine a ton of people canceling their subscriptions if all the providers put out is that crap “filler content.”
- geodel 3y agoOne thing we all can do is to be less entertained. But I guess this would be considered extreme measure, specially in US.
- mikeyouse 3y agoAnd when you do cancel, be sure to let the services know in any feedback forms they offer.
- phpisthebest 3y agoI have been doing that for a long time not because of the strike, but because 90% of the content is garbage, and the few shows that have found interesting they cancel after 1 season.... I think the situation with the Witcher will be the last straw with me and Netflix.. I am probably one of the few people that still have Prime because of the shipping but as they keep increasing costs to add a bunch of things I have no interest in (like Sports, and complete Trash that is Rings of Power) the value is less and less for that as well
- Invictus0 3y agoDisney's operating income from its entertainment segment was over $1.1B for the last quarter [0]. It's down quite a bit from the year before but there is still plenty of wiggle room to pay actors and writers. [0] https://alpharesearch.io/platform/share?filingId=0001744489-23-000099&jump=eyJ0YWJsZUlkIjoiMDRjMyIsImRvY09mZnNldCI6MH0= https://alpharesearch.io/platform/share?filingId=0001744489-...
- owyn 3y agoSince that money belongs to the share holders, any non-management salary expenses are clearly securities fraud. /s
- danaris 3y agoI mean, you joke, but it honestly seems more and more like that's the position many execs and finance types are trying to take these days. Top management and shareholders deserve to get big bucks; everyone else, especially the people doing 100% of the actual work, are cost centers to be minimized as aggressively and uncompromisingly as possible.
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- lesuorac 3y agoI guess lucky for Hollywood the visual artists (i.e. CGI) aren't in a union.
- dluan 3y agoThe visual effects people and animators in Hollywood should absolutely be organizing for one, because their work is the soonest to be blown up with AI stuff. There's already a ton of stuff for small productivity improvements that reduce editing or grading tasks that used to take days into minutes.
- bsimpson 3y agoThere's the Animation Guild for collective bargaining, and ASIFA (which is like the Academy of cartoons). https://animationguild.org/ https://animationguild.org/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASIFA-Hollywood https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASIFA-Hollywood
- roboror 3y agoASIFA is not a labor union in any way and local 839 is not really a VFX union, nor does representation function like SAG or WGA do. VFX is a mess.
- Animats 3y agoThe Animation Guild is a good model. Disney, whose animators have been unionized since the 1950s, bought Fox's animation operation and is trying to run it non-union. They're refusing to bargain with TAG, even though Disney has recognized the union.[1] There aren't that many animation studios left. Most either went out of business or were bought by Disney. The remaining Hollywood unionized animation studios are Disney, Sony, Nickelodeon, Rick and Morty, Titmouse LA/Robin Red Breast Production, and WAG Pictures, Inc. Despite repeated attempts, TAG has been unable to unionize game developers. [1] https://actionnetwork.org/petitions/support-unionized-workers-at-disney20th-tv-animation https://actionnetwork.org/petitions/support-unionized-worker...
- monkeyodeath 3y agoThe business philosophy of "maximize shareholder value above all else" is going to eviscerate our society until there's nothing of quality left. Hollywood has always been a dirty and money-focused business, but it seems like the latest crop of execs are hellbent on entirely divorcing the creative enterprise from its human elements. Now studios are just exotic financial instruments that seek to turn "content" into stock prices.
- gruez 3y ago> The business philosophy of "maximize shareholder value above all else" is going to eviscerate our society until there's nothing of quality left. Well no, because there are literally an entire industry (luxury goods) where the main selling point is quality, and I don't see any sign that's going to disappear anytime soon.
- karaterobot 3y agoSome of them, sure. But a lot of luxury products are Veblen goods, where the demand is created by the high price itself, rather than the quality. Status symbols and the like.
- bugglebeetle 3y agoQuality and price are frequently orthogonal in the luxury goods business.
- ohgodplsno 3y agoIf you think all LVMH workers have good working conditions, or that materials are sourced ethically, I have bad news for you. Quality doesn't prevent the search of profit maximization. Hell, luxury goods aren't even about quality. The price/quality ratio on your Vuitton Bag or your Ferrari is down in the gutter. You're buying a social status, not quality.
- LapsangGuzzler 3y agoI’m not sure how familiar you are with luxury goods, but there are lots of YouTube channels and analyses of the quality of luxury products, and it’s not what you think it is. They’re maximizing shareholder value too, they’re just going after people narcissistic and wealthy enough to not notice that they’re buying junk that’s dressed up because the brand name means something to them.
- bwestergard 3y agoA refreshing show of solidarity between groups of workers whose interests clearly align. If they call for the public to cancel subscriptions, I'll do it.
- thefounder 3y agoWell, to be honest we've been served a lot of trash content before the strike for various reasons so I'm not sure how our interests and worker's interests align here.
- dkh 3y agoPeople have been continuingly trying to say "content is garbage, the writers on strike weren't any good anyway" and such throughout this whole ordeal. But there's a lot of content for a reason--we each have our preferences. What one person loves, someone else thinks is shit. Most content will not be for everyone. This is fine. But are you actually saying that there is nothing out there that you really enjoy? That 100% of it across the board is terrible? And are you willing to say that most other people feel the same way? There is nothing out there for anyone? If there is anything you do like, then you want to support the workers because it gets made the same way as the stuff you don't like, and this is by design. Unless, of course, you're expecting everything to be Game of Thrones or some other huge show that most people seemed to enjoy simultaneously. In that case, you should be even more on board, because those are hard to come by, they are expensive, risky, and require all the talent available to them.
- thefounder 3y agoIf you have a monopoly on anything(i.e food, content etc) you can just push it to the masses and they will consume it regardless of its quality. That's how propaganda works too. It's not like people prefer repetitive junk promoting a certain agenda. I wouldn't mind to try the AI stuff. Why would I care if the sea of junk content is generated by an AI instead of low paid humans? Maybe the AI will prove how worthless this B content actually is and let real humans focus on good/valuable content. Either way competition is always a good thing in my book. I'm sure there will still be premium content such Game of Thrones, Top Gun, Avatar etc. Maybe the AI will even let us tailor the experience/plot more to our individual preferences(i.e our own check-boxes) so let's embrace the technology once again. It may be the solution not the problem to the quality of content and not only(i.e diversity). People could choose to watch the same movie in different modes(i.e director's mode, kids mode, snowflake mode, adult mode, asian mode, black mode, caucasian mode, lgbtq+ mode, mixt mode, random mode and so on).
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- lusus_naturae 3y agoWriting and acting are both explorations of the human condition. I am unsure how something that's removed from the experience of humanity can portray that in any sense. I still think it's interesting to explore new ideas so I am curious to see how generative content (writing, actors, settings etc.) will be utilized in different contexts. I guess the part that feels disconnected to me is that just because you call something art doesn't make it so, and just because you make something with AI doesn't mean it will be intelligent or interesting. But content creators will only care about improving their standards if content comsumers stop eating shiny-looking shit on a platter. I guess one can dream...or demand better standards and have higher expectations. If the bar to create something is so low, then anything that's created must be proportionally evocative, profound etc.
- t0bia_s 3y agoWith low quality expectations from film production, sure. Something like AI generated film could make money. If film is treated primarily as entertainment but not art, consequences are obvious. Same case with overproduction low quality stuffs. Coroporate greed for monetization BS needs to be addressed. It's not sustainable.