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It’s funny how this is actually worse than cable. I still have and use the old HDHomeRun Prime (no longer made), which has a cablecard inserted into it (which y

It’s funny how this is actually worse than cable. I still have and use the old HDHomeRun Prime (no longer made), which has a cablecard inserted into it (which your cable company is legally required to provide, or at least it used to be?) and it emits unencrypted video on every channel, except for I believe “premium” channels which is basically only HBO.

zucked 3y ago
I thought I read somewhere that the provision that required cablecard specifically access is no longer in effect. They still must provide access, but what that is seems murkier than ever: https://www.nexttv.com/news/fcc-abandons-cablecard-navigation-devices-rule-review https://www.nexttv.com/news/fcc-abandons-cablecard-navigatio...
- LeoPanthera 3y ago
  That’s probably true. But I guess if you already have a cablecard, it’s not going to suddenly stop working. Mine is still working just fine.
  - dpiers 3y ago
    Comcast "forced" me off of mine by upping my rate to $180/mo for the cheapest cable-only package when there were contract deals available with internet and more channels for $110/mo. No contract rates available without turning in the cablecard. Switched symmetric GB fiber provider for $65/mo and pay for streaming TV during the NHL season.
    - mcny 3y ago
      > Switched symmetric GB fiber provider for $65/mo and pay for streaming TV during the NHL season. Good, everyone who is able to switch away from cable should switch away from cable. Signed, a time warner spectrum hostage
      - tiffanyg 3y ago
        Cable television (and, to some extent "television" in general) has the stink of a dying industry all over it. Of course, "cable TV" during my lifetime has often been a type of business run, in many areas, as a sort of personal piggy-bank / for "rents" extraction, and not in any kind of public or consumer oriented manner at all [1]. But, really, at this point, cable is just milking as much as it can out of the generations that still are very dependent on it as it sinks into oblivion. Cable wasn't exactly great, well, ever ... but, even through perhaps about 2015, it was at least somewhat watchable. In the past few years, I've had the ... (mis)fortune of being in a household with cable (after years of only even being able to watch when I went to someone else's home). Commercials were bad enough 10 years ago. Now, they hardly show any scenes in shows / movies before there is a commercial. Movies with runtimes of 1.5 hours, will run for 2.75 hours on TV. This can be on "broadcast" stations as well as cable-only. The barrage of ads only drops off after about 10pm. Even worse, they now have very "dynamic" time slot ads, 5s ads interspersed with 15s ads etc... Plus, the ads themselves often enough feel made for the "TikTok" generation. Just an absolute mess. I'll never look back at TV with any deep nostalgia, though there is a bit of nostalgia for some aspects. It was never a highlight of life - like Seinfeld quips in one of his stand-ups: "... everyone on TV is doing something better than what you are doing ... you never see someone on TV sliding off the couch with potato chip crumbs all over their face ..." (something to that effect). But, it's really "jumped the shark", these days. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/30/obituaries/john-j-rigas-dead.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/30/obituaries/john-j-rigas-d... (I can't quickly find some of the material I was looking for - practices of companies in the 90s, fighting any kind of innovation while fees exploded etc. ... There were noteworthy laws enacted, incl. 1992 cable-related act and the notorious 1996 telco act ... lots of bad anti tech anti consumer crap mixed in all of it, and lots of private corralling of money, in any case)
        kelnos 3y ago
        Cable has definitely gone downhill. I remember we got our first cable box (a fairly large black metal box with a channel selector dial on it) in 1985 or so, and it was actually pretty good. Not that many channels, but as I remember it (I was very young, so it's a bit fuzzy), most channels had no commercials at all, even between programs. I haven't had cable since 2005 or so, when I canceled it. I think I got cable TV just because I assumed that was just what I was supposed to do, since I'd had it for nearly all my life. But after a year or so of living on my own, I realized I rarely watched it, and got rid of it. Haven't looked back, and I aggressively avoid being exposed advertising as much as possible. When I'm visiting family the TV is usually on in the background (with some cable channel on), and it's astonishing to me how little actual programming is there these days. Feels like mostly ads, and, as you point out, normal-length movies have their time slots expanded by at least 50% to account for ads. Gross.
    - kelnos 3y ago
      I wish I could switch. It's ridiculous that in San Francisco my only realistic choice is Comcast. No fiber (despite being one block from the 3rd Street fiber trunk), and MonkeyBrains won't guarantee the speeds I want. Either way, kudos to you for voting with your wallet here. I wish we could all do that in every situation. I'm a little bit surprised they didn't offer you a better rate when you called to cancel. A friend of mine has been riding a 1-year signup promotion for a good 5+ years now; every year when they're about to switch him to regular pricing, he calls them and tells them he's unhappy with the new rate and will cancel. But in your case, I guess Comcast's profits are solid enough (and they know most people don't have an alternative) that they can be choosy about their customers.
      - dexterdog 3y ago
        You can thank your local corrupt politicians for maintaining Comcast's monopoly in your area. Comcast pays good money to have those votes, money it takes from you and your neighbors.
        simfree 3y ago
        The capital expenditure to build fiber is also quite large, Sonic.net, Astound and others have spent money to build fiber in parts of California, but maintaining and using existing infrastructure is just cheaper than building new, especially if trenching is involved.
ScottEvtuch 3y ago
My local cable company gets around this by strategically pricing everyone towards using their new cable boxes which are essentially digital TV over DOCSIS internet. The prices for the IP TV plans (which they still call "cable") are less than $100 per month, but I was quoted over $300 per month for a traditional cable plan that could use a CableCard.
- kelnos 3y ago
  Yeah these sorts of practices seem to be everywhere. I have Comcast Business (for internet) at home, and even for that, they want you to use their provided cable modem + "security gateway". I told them I wanted to use my own modem and router, and they told me that would cost more! I can only assume they gather data about your home network and sell it to third parties, and don't want to lose that revenue stream. And I assume that device also broadcasts that "xfinity" public WiFi network as well. I of course think the practice is disgusting regardless, but it surprised me that they'd do it on their business-class product too. Would be really nice to see some regulation aimed at prohibiting this sort of thing. (To be fair, I recently called Optimum for cable internet setup at another address, and told them I wanted to use my own equipment, and they still gave me the same price. At least some companies aren't engaging in this bullshit. They did try to upsell me to a much faster package than I wanted, and tried to get me to add their cellular product, but I guess that sort of thing is a normal practice anywhere, and at least the sales rep wasn't pushy and it was easy to say no.)
  - projektfu 3y ago
    With Comcast, you can disable the public Wi-Fi on your end (just log in) and you can also ask them to put your cable modem into "bridge mode", to use with your own router, but to get static IPs you need your router in router mode and it will get a dynamic IP and the static IPs. I was sick of the way that Comcast prices creep up so I switched away anyway.
    - Operyl 3y ago
      The modem they currently use actually reenables the Xfinity hotspot when I turn bridge mode on. It’s infuriating.
mgulick 3y ago
Up until 2 years ago, I used to use an HDHomeRun Prime with a cablecard for just basic cable (only a dozen or so channels) because I had terrible antenna reception in my apartment (I was only about 2 or 3 miles from the transmitter, but with a hill in-between). It cost me something like $60/month for just the basic cable (from RCN). Fortunately I've now moved and have great OTA reception on ATSC 1.0 so I was able to ditch the expensive cable service. I really think the basic broadcast channels should be free to watch on whatever medium you choose. These should be free on clear QAM cable without needing a cable card.
afavour 3y ago
Unfortunately not always the case in NYC at least. Verizon (FIOS) had basically every channel unencrypted. When I had to switch to Spectrum I discovered they encrypt basically every channel save for ones available over OTA.
krackers 3y ago
When I looked into this, it seemed the "premium" channel restriction (formally called "Copy Control Information") was something that was done client-side in software, because Windows Media Center was one of the only software able to play copy-once content. Have people tried cracking the drm scheme used?

zucked 3y ago

I thought I read somewhere that the provision that required cablecard specifically access is no longer in effect. They still must provide access, but what that is seems murkier than ever: https://www.nexttv.com/news/fcc-abandons-cablecard-navigation-devices-rule-review https://www.nexttv.com/news/fcc-abandons-cablecard-navigatio...

LeoPanthera 3y ago
That’s probably true. But I guess if you already have a cablecard, it’s not going to suddenly stop working. Mine is still working just fine.
- dpiers 3y ago
  Comcast "forced" me off of mine by upping my rate to $180/mo for the cheapest cable-only package when there were contract deals available with internet and more channels for $110/mo. No contract rates available without turning in the cablecard. Switched symmetric GB fiber provider for $65/mo and pay for streaming TV during the NHL season.
  - mcny 3y ago
    > Switched symmetric GB fiber provider for $65/mo and pay for streaming TV during the NHL season. Good, everyone who is able to switch away from cable should switch away from cable. Signed, a time warner spectrum hostage
    - tiffanyg 3y ago
      Cable television (and, to some extent "television" in general) has the stink of a dying industry all over it. Of course, "cable TV" during my lifetime has often been a type of business run, in many areas, as a sort of personal piggy-bank / for "rents" extraction, and not in any kind of public or consumer oriented manner at all [1]. But, really, at this point, cable is just milking as much as it can out of the generations that still are very dependent on it as it sinks into oblivion. Cable wasn't exactly great, well, ever ... but, even through perhaps about 2015, it was at least somewhat watchable. In the past few years, I've had the ... (mis)fortune of being in a household with cable (after years of only even being able to watch when I went to someone else's home). Commercials were bad enough 10 years ago. Now, they hardly show any scenes in shows / movies before there is a commercial. Movies with runtimes of 1.5 hours, will run for 2.75 hours on TV. This can be on "broadcast" stations as well as cable-only. The barrage of ads only drops off after about 10pm. Even worse, they now have very "dynamic" time slot ads, 5s ads interspersed with 15s ads etc... Plus, the ads themselves often enough feel made for the "TikTok" generation. Just an absolute mess. I'll never look back at TV with any deep nostalgia, though there is a bit of nostalgia for some aspects. It was never a highlight of life - like Seinfeld quips in one of his stand-ups: "... everyone on TV is doing something better than what you are doing ... you never see someone on TV sliding off the couch with potato chip crumbs all over their face ..." (something to that effect). But, it's really "jumped the shark", these days. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/30/obituaries/john-j-rigas-dead.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/30/obituaries/john-j-rigas-d... (I can't quickly find some of the material I was looking for - practices of companies in the 90s, fighting any kind of innovation while fees exploded etc. ... There were noteworthy laws enacted, incl. 1992 cable-related act and the notorious 1996 telco act ... lots of bad anti tech anti consumer crap mixed in all of it, and lots of private corralling of money, in any case)
      - kelnos 3y ago
        Cable has definitely gone downhill. I remember we got our first cable box (a fairly large black metal box with a channel selector dial on it) in 1985 or so, and it was actually pretty good. Not that many channels, but as I remember it (I was very young, so it's a bit fuzzy), most channels had no commercials at all, even between programs. I haven't had cable since 2005 or so, when I canceled it. I think I got cable TV just because I assumed that was just what I was supposed to do, since I'd had it for nearly all my life. But after a year or so of living on my own, I realized I rarely watched it, and got rid of it. Haven't looked back, and I aggressively avoid being exposed advertising as much as possible. When I'm visiting family the TV is usually on in the background (with some cable channel on), and it's astonishing to me how little actual programming is there these days. Feels like mostly ads, and, as you point out, normal-length movies have their time slots expanded by at least 50% to account for ads. Gross.
  - kelnos 3y ago
    I wish I could switch. It's ridiculous that in San Francisco my only realistic choice is Comcast. No fiber (despite being one block from the 3rd Street fiber trunk), and MonkeyBrains won't guarantee the speeds I want. Either way, kudos to you for voting with your wallet here. I wish we could all do that in every situation. I'm a little bit surprised they didn't offer you a better rate when you called to cancel. A friend of mine has been riding a 1-year signup promotion for a good 5+ years now; every year when they're about to switch him to regular pricing, he calls them and tells them he's unhappy with the new rate and will cancel. But in your case, I guess Comcast's profits are solid enough (and they know most people don't have an alternative) that they can be choosy about their customers.
    - dexterdog 3y ago
      You can thank your local corrupt politicians for maintaining Comcast's monopoly in your area. Comcast pays good money to have those votes, money it takes from you and your neighbors.
      - simfree 3y ago
        The capital expenditure to build fiber is also quite large, Sonic.net, Astound and others have spent money to build fiber in parts of California, but maintaining and using existing infrastructure is just cheaper than building new, especially if trenching is involved.

ScottEvtuch 3y ago

My local cable company gets around this by strategically pricing everyone towards using their new cable boxes which are essentially digital TV over DOCSIS internet. The prices for the IP TV plans (which they still call "cable") are less than $100 per month, but I was quoted over $300 per month for a traditional cable plan that could use a CableCard.

kelnos 3y ago
Yeah these sorts of practices seem to be everywhere. I have Comcast Business (for internet) at home, and even for that, they want you to use their provided cable modem + "security gateway". I told them I wanted to use my own modem and router, and they told me that would cost more! I can only assume they gather data about your home network and sell it to third parties, and don't want to lose that revenue stream. And I assume that device also broadcasts that "xfinity" public WiFi network as well. I of course think the practice is disgusting regardless, but it surprised me that they'd do it on their business-class product too. Would be really nice to see some regulation aimed at prohibiting this sort of thing. (To be fair, I recently called Optimum for cable internet setup at another address, and told them I wanted to use my own equipment, and they still gave me the same price. At least some companies aren't engaging in this bullshit. They did try to upsell me to a much faster package than I wanted, and tried to get me to add their cellular product, but I guess that sort of thing is a normal practice anywhere, and at least the sales rep wasn't pushy and it was easy to say no.)
- projektfu 3y ago
  With Comcast, you can disable the public Wi-Fi on your end (just log in) and you can also ask them to put your cable modem into "bridge mode", to use with your own router, but to get static IPs you need your router in router mode and it will get a dynamic IP and the static IPs. I was sick of the way that Comcast prices creep up so I switched away anyway.
  - Operyl 3y ago
    The modem they currently use actually reenables the Xfinity hotspot when I turn bridge mode on. It’s infuriating.

mgulick 3y ago

Up until 2 years ago, I used to use an HDHomeRun Prime with a cablecard for just basic cable (only a dozen or so channels) because I had terrible antenna reception in my apartment (I was only about 2 or 3 miles from the transmitter, but with a hill in-between). It cost me something like $60/month for just the basic cable (from RCN). Fortunately I've now moved and have great OTA reception on ATSC 1.0 so I was able to ditch the expensive cable service. I really think the basic broadcast channels should be free to watch on whatever medium you choose. These should be free on clear QAM cable without needing a cable card.

afavour 3y ago

Unfortunately not always the case in NYC at least. Verizon (FIOS) had basically every channel unencrypted. When I had to switch to Spectrum I discovered they encrypt basically every channel save for ones available over OTA.

krackers 3y ago

When I looked into this, it seemed the "premium" channel restriction (formally called "Copy Control Information") was something that was done client-side in software, because Windows Media Center was one of the only software able to play copy-once content. Have people tried cracking the drm scheme used?