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The problem is that the use case is generally criminal, which crypto people elide by complaining about whichever country's government is currently being attacke

The problem is that the use case is generally criminal, which crypto people elide by complaining about whichever country's government is currently being attacked in the media. They do this in order to make dodging taxes and government oversight sound heroic. It's also a way to transform a conversation about fraud and free-riding into easy nationalist cheerleading. What people want is anonymity, cheap/free checking, and cheap/free money transfers. Crypto thus far has partially supplied the first, and is so bad at the second two that the only profitable reason to use it is to dodge some sort of official oversight when dealing with large amounts of money.

bottlepalm 3y ago
I must be a criminal then lol. Banks are a pain in the ass to deal with. Bitcoin is a very practical and easy way to move large amounts of money around. That's why a lot of people use it. We pay our taxes when transacting it just the same. If you don't use Bitcoin, great, but don't make assumptions about those of us who do.
- Forgeties79 3y ago
  > Banks are a pain in the ass to deal with. Bitcoin is a very practical and easy way to move large amounts of money around. There is no way you will convince me that setting up and using Bitcoin for daily transactions, all on your own wallet with your keys etc., is “easy” or any less of a “pain in the ass” than using a regular modern bank is on a daily basis. That’s even ignoring the baseline tech literacy one needs to have to get set up. It’s a dead horse at this point but “practical” also comes at odds with bitcoin’s volatility.
  - latchkey 3y ago
    As a US citizen who has lived for multiple years in Vietnam, I can guarantee to you that using Bitcoin is infinitely easier than dealing with the VN banking system. Forget the legal/identity aspects, just the language and cultural barriers alone are a huge pain in the arse.
    - Forgeties79 3y ago
      I find it hard to believe you are doing even half your daily transactions without converting to fiat. I also don’t know how you can wait a few minutes for a transaction to clear potentially dozens of times in a single day. So my guess is you largely deal with dong regardless of how you store your wealth. This just sounds like a quick sound bite where the day to day realities would tell a more nuanced story. If it were more convenient, then more people would be doing it. There is nothing convenient about setting up a bitcoin wallet and converting your money back-and-forth between it dozens of times a week, if not a day. This is especially difficult without the regular use of exchanges, which many crypto advocates will try to dissuade you from storing any crypto on, because you are functionally just using a bank again at that point and exposing yourself. “Not your keys not your crypto,” plus another online account to get hacked. Being your own bank is a ton of work and most people don’t want to deal with that.
      - latchkey 3y ago
        You're stuck on bitcoin, there are other cryptos far more suited to these things, like USDC/USDT. I only mentioned bitcoin because, even with the complexities of it, it is still easier than dealing with VN banks. That's how hard it is to deal with. This is not a sound bite at all. More people ARE doing it, you just don't have any personal visibility into it. TONS of viets living abroad send money back and forth all the time. Money remittance is a huge global industry and the existing solutions all suck. KYC and fees are the two general major issues for people who just want to send money to their families. Expats, like me, have an even harder time. Language and cultural issues often get the in way. If you're a nomad who works online and doesn't have a 'regular' job... you're out of the system and hard for the banking system to deal with. Try walking into a bank where literally nobody speaks english and open an account. In Vietnam, there is also something that the US doesn't have much of. A black market for funds. I can send USDC to Vietnam and a local there will convert it to VND for a very small fee and zero hassle. These are all things that based on your comments, don't impact you. That doesn't mean they aren't valid or that the usecase is moot. Try walking in others shoes for a bit before you jump to conclusions about things.

bottlepalm 3y ago

I must be a criminal then lol. Banks are a pain in the ass to deal with. Bitcoin is a very practical and easy way to move large amounts of money around. That's why a lot of people use it. We pay our taxes when transacting it just the same. If you don't use Bitcoin, great, but don't make assumptions about those of us who do.

Forgeties79 3y ago
> Banks are a pain in the ass to deal with. Bitcoin is a very practical and easy way to move large amounts of money around. There is no way you will convince me that setting up and using Bitcoin for daily transactions, all on your own wallet with your keys etc., is “easy” or any less of a “pain in the ass” than using a regular modern bank is on a daily basis. That’s even ignoring the baseline tech literacy one needs to have to get set up. It’s a dead horse at this point but “practical” also comes at odds with bitcoin’s volatility.
- latchkey 3y ago
  As a US citizen who has lived for multiple years in Vietnam, I can guarantee to you that using Bitcoin is infinitely easier than dealing with the VN banking system. Forget the legal/identity aspects, just the language and cultural barriers alone are a huge pain in the arse.
  - Forgeties79 3y ago
    I find it hard to believe you are doing even half your daily transactions without converting to fiat. I also don’t know how you can wait a few minutes for a transaction to clear potentially dozens of times in a single day. So my guess is you largely deal with dong regardless of how you store your wealth. This just sounds like a quick sound bite where the day to day realities would tell a more nuanced story. If it were more convenient, then more people would be doing it. There is nothing convenient about setting up a bitcoin wallet and converting your money back-and-forth between it dozens of times a week, if not a day. This is especially difficult without the regular use of exchanges, which many crypto advocates will try to dissuade you from storing any crypto on, because you are functionally just using a bank again at that point and exposing yourself. “Not your keys not your crypto,” plus another online account to get hacked. Being your own bank is a ton of work and most people don’t want to deal with that.
    - latchkey 3y ago
      You're stuck on bitcoin, there are other cryptos far more suited to these things, like USDC/USDT. I only mentioned bitcoin because, even with the complexities of it, it is still easier than dealing with VN banks. That's how hard it is to deal with. This is not a sound bite at all. More people ARE doing it, you just don't have any personal visibility into it. TONS of viets living abroad send money back and forth all the time. Money remittance is a huge global industry and the existing solutions all suck. KYC and fees are the two general major issues for people who just want to send money to their families. Expats, like me, have an even harder time. Language and cultural issues often get the in way. If you're a nomad who works online and doesn't have a 'regular' job... you're out of the system and hard for the banking system to deal with. Try walking into a bank where literally nobody speaks english and open an account. In Vietnam, there is also something that the US doesn't have much of. A black market for funds. I can send USDC to Vietnam and a local there will convert it to VND for a very small fee and zero hassle. These are all things that based on your comments, don't impact you. That doesn't mean they aren't valid or that the usecase is moot. Try walking in others shoes for a bit before you jump to conclusions about things.