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Some good statistics about homelessness and what drives it. Lots of people see the unwell guy on the corner, but that's the tip of the iceberg: https://www.noah

by davidw 3y ago

Some good statistics about homelessness and what drives it. Lots of people see the unwell guy on the corner, but that's the tip of the iceberg: https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/everything-you-think-you-know-about https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/everything-you-think-you-know-... And a pretty interesting article on efforts to get people out of homelessness in Texas: https://calmatters.org/housing/2023/06/california-houston-homeless-solutions/ https://calmatters.org/housing/2023/06/california-houston-ho...

itake 3y ago
Noah's article has many broad generalizations that don't hold water. For example, Missippi's has a low cost of living and quality of life (cheaper for people to house mentally ill family members) [0]. California involuntarily imports homeless people from other states, which would lead to other states having less homeless and California having more. Poor mental healthcare could mean that people that need better quality care leave for states with good quality care. I stopped reading after that. [0] - https://www.midwesternmarx.com/articles/mississippis-low-homelessness-rate-too-good-to-be-true-by-alex-zambito https://www.midwesternmarx.com/articles/mississippis-low-hom...
- davidw 3y ago
  It's pretty hard data, not generalizations. It's odd how much people resist the notion that "fewer people can afford a good as it becomes more expensive" with housing. It's like the Twilight Zone of economics where supply and demand no longer apply.
  - tehwebguy 3y ago
    It's been 16 years and we're still getting South Park talking points on homelessness.
  - detourdog 3y ago
    It's hard data but his rhetorical device of saying homelessness is 100% related to housing is hardly interesting. How practical is it to write off 20-30% of a cause? There are houses everywhere that are below market rates. They may not be glamorous but they are homes. No doubt we have problems. The accessibility, safety, and energy efficiency gains are a positive. I found the article intellectually lazy and I must be in a real foul mood to even be commenting.
    - davidw 3y ago
      > his rhetorical device of saying homelessness is 100% related to housing It's right there at the very beginning of the article: "Even if drugs, mental illness, etc. do exacerbate homelessness to some extent" No one is saying it's not a complex problem with many things going on, but a lot of people refuse to acknowledge that the price of housing is a primary driver of homelessness.
      - detourdog 3y ago
        The repetition of the mantra that 100% of homelessness is lack of having a home must have washed it out of my brain. The people not in the impaired category can make different decisions and have a home. I can't live in Manhattan becuase I think I need at least $10,000,000. I guess I will live somewhere that makes more sense. A big driver I see is the American culture of avoiding intergenerational living.
        davidw 3y ago
        > The repetition of the mantra that 100% of homelessness is lack of having a home This is, however, not a thing that anyone says.
        detourdog 3y ago
        It’s not far off the rhetorical device used in the article which was 100% of homelessness is caused by housing. Not very insightful.
local_crmdgeon 3y ago
THIS THIS THIS THIS. The vast majority of homeless are people "couch surfing" or "crashing with a friend for a bit." The guy on the corner screaming and smoking meth is NOT a representative homeless person - it's a second issue that doesn't really have a word. Vagrant maybe - either way it's not really separate in "the discourse." Some small % of the people sleeping in their car to save up a security deposit will turn into that guy, but those people are in that position from housing costs. This is a housing cost issue, with an end result that's a public mental health/safety consequence. You can arrest the guy (and I think you should, hot take for HN) for jerking off, but that won't solve the problem. The problem is that there's no fucking housing and it's illegal to build more. The vacant unit numbers you see thrown around are totally made up - they count houses in places like the Catskills and Kansas etc, not housing in SF/NY/Miami
- caddemon 3y ago
  Arresting that guy will help solve the vagrant problem. It won't solve the homelessness problem, and that's definitely a hugely important point. Most people who become the vagrant type of homeless have serious underlying mental illness or got seriously deep into drugs though, and they're in a state where they are not going to voluntarily accept help. A guy down on his luck is unlikely to turn into this disruptive stereotype even if he does unfortunately end up on the street longer term, while there are vagrants who came from wealthy families and are on the street entirely by "choice" (which I put in quotes because they are seriously ill). I heard a talk recently from a couple social workers that run programs for addressing homelessness in New York. There are 100 or so homeless people that are well known to services in NYC because they have repeatedly refused offers for help, and these people have stayed on the streets for years while an entire homeless populations' worth of people has been successfully helped back onto their feet (of course with a never-ending flow that keeps the overall population at high numbers). Occasionally one of the vagrants ends up in the news for attacking someone, but short of that they will be left on the streets, which is really a lose/lose.
  - davidw 3y ago
    > a never-ending flow that keeps the overall population at high numbers I think of high housing prices as a "homelessness producing machine" that can generate more people without homes faster than the government or non-profits can help people out. Lower housing prices mean lower flows, which makes it easier to get a handle on things, like the Texas article discusses.
jdjdjdhhd 3y ago
https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/everything-you-think-you-know-about https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/everything-you-think-you-know-... doesn't get it, obviously

by davidw 3y ago

itake 3y ago

Noah's article has many broad generalizations that don't hold water. For example, Missippi's has a low cost of living and quality of life (cheaper for people to house mentally ill family members) [0]. California involuntarily imports homeless people from other states, which would lead to other states having less homeless and California having more. Poor mental healthcare could mean that people that need better quality care leave for states with good quality care. I stopped reading after that. [0] - https://www.midwesternmarx.com/articles/mississippis-low-homelessness-rate-too-good-to-be-true-by-alex-zambito https://www.midwesternmarx.com/articles/mississippis-low-hom...

davidw 3y ago
It's pretty hard data, not generalizations. It's odd how much people resist the notion that "fewer people can afford a good as it becomes more expensive" with housing. It's like the Twilight Zone of economics where supply and demand no longer apply.
- tehwebguy 3y ago
  It's been 16 years and we're still getting South Park talking points on homelessness.
- detourdog 3y ago
  It's hard data but his rhetorical device of saying homelessness is 100% related to housing is hardly interesting. How practical is it to write off 20-30% of a cause? There are houses everywhere that are below market rates. They may not be glamorous but they are homes. No doubt we have problems. The accessibility, safety, and energy efficiency gains are a positive. I found the article intellectually lazy and I must be in a real foul mood to even be commenting.
  - davidw 3y ago
    > his rhetorical device of saying homelessness is 100% related to housing It's right there at the very beginning of the article: "Even if drugs, mental illness, etc. do exacerbate homelessness to some extent" No one is saying it's not a complex problem with many things going on, but a lot of people refuse to acknowledge that the price of housing is a primary driver of homelessness.
    - detourdog 3y ago
      The repetition of the mantra that 100% of homelessness is lack of having a home must have washed it out of my brain. The people not in the impaired category can make different decisions and have a home. I can't live in Manhattan becuase I think I need at least $10,000,000. I guess I will live somewhere that makes more sense. A big driver I see is the American culture of avoiding intergenerational living.
      - davidw 3y ago
        > The repetition of the mantra that 100% of homelessness is lack of having a home This is, however, not a thing that anyone says.
        detourdog 3y ago
        It’s not far off the rhetorical device used in the article which was 100% of homelessness is caused by housing. Not very insightful.

local_crmdgeon 3y ago

THIS THIS THIS THIS. The vast majority of homeless are people "couch surfing" or "crashing with a friend for a bit." The guy on the corner screaming and smoking meth is NOT a representative homeless person - it's a second issue that doesn't really have a word. Vagrant maybe - either way it's not really separate in "the discourse." Some small % of the people sleeping in their car to save up a security deposit will turn into that guy, but those people are in that position from housing costs. This is a housing cost issue, with an end result that's a public mental health/safety consequence. You can arrest the guy (and I think you should, hot take for HN) for jerking off, but that won't solve the problem. The problem is that there's no fucking housing and it's illegal to build more. The vacant unit numbers you see thrown around are totally made up - they count houses in places like the Catskills and Kansas etc, not housing in SF/NY/Miami

caddemon 3y ago
Arresting that guy will help solve the vagrant problem. It won't solve the homelessness problem, and that's definitely a hugely important point. Most people who become the vagrant type of homeless have serious underlying mental illness or got seriously deep into drugs though, and they're in a state where they are not going to voluntarily accept help. A guy down on his luck is unlikely to turn into this disruptive stereotype even if he does unfortunately end up on the street longer term, while there are vagrants who came from wealthy families and are on the street entirely by "choice" (which I put in quotes because they are seriously ill). I heard a talk recently from a couple social workers that run programs for addressing homelessness in New York. There are 100 or so homeless people that are well known to services in NYC because they have repeatedly refused offers for help, and these people have stayed on the streets for years while an entire homeless populations' worth of people has been successfully helped back onto their feet (of course with a never-ending flow that keeps the overall population at high numbers). Occasionally one of the vagrants ends up in the news for attacking someone, but short of that they will be left on the streets, which is really a lose/lose.
- davidw 3y ago
  > a never-ending flow that keeps the overall population at high numbers I think of high housing prices as a "homelessness producing machine" that can generate more people without homes faster than the government or non-profits can help people out. Lower housing prices mean lower flows, which makes it easier to get a handle on things, like the Texas article discusses.

jdjdjdhhd 3y ago

https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/everything-you-think-you-know-about https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/everything-you-think-you-know-... doesn't get it, obviously