4 ms·

Stopped reading after I encountered this ridiculous statement: "Well, strange, if someone made it in 1 night, they could certainly fix it in 1 night" I'm gues

Stopped reading after I encountered this ridiculous statement: "Well, strange, if someone made it in 1 night, they could certainly fix it in 1 night" I'm guessing the person complaining is not a developer and/or has never worked on a large scale project.

wahnfrieden 3y ago
…
- droptablemain 3y ago
  Well maybe she shouldn't frontload her argument with stupid fluff.
  - readthenotes1 3y ago
    Complainant is consistent in that her main complaint is also... Not very realistic, maybe what you would call stupid fluff.
- cirrus3 3y ago
  The statement says a lot actually
iaaan 3y ago
Yeah, there's a lot of entitlement in this post. It sounds like this person is mad that they heavily financially contributed to an open-source project and they didn't get a return on their investment. I don't have enough context from this post alone to understand what is going on with the $8MM situation, but if the rest of the post is anything to go by, sounds like a nothingburger.
- a1o 3y ago
  If I understood the person is also the maintainer of the forums (dev + admin), so probably more contribution in time than money, and the time being significant part of the person life.
  - readthenotes1 3y ago
    He mentioned that just paying for the forms cost $100s a month, so yes he is investing heavily. Having that kind of money to throw at it makes it kind of odd that he doesn't understand financing and how it would be fraudulent to raise money for W4 and then spend it on the game engine
    - devmor 3y ago
      Eh, people can have money and not understand finance. Early in my career I had a very lucky and very lucrative contract that gave me a six figure income at 23 years old. I was not experienced enough to understand financing but I paid for a lot of things for other people’s projects and hobbies because I felt like doing so.
cirrus3 3y ago
yea, or any project really... making something and making something that works right can be wildly different amounts of effort I was also put off by the use of the term "scam". Seems like the person is just upset funds are not being spent in the way he would like and yea maybe that is a problem, but "scam" is a leap.
kabdib 3y ago
How many folks here have spent linear weeks patching up someone else's 1 night efforts? [/me raises one hand, buries face in the other] Bonus points if it's your own 1 night effort. :-)
- Terr_ 3y ago
  Or the wonderful week+ bugs where the fix turns out to be a single line. (Especially when it comes down to something that corrupts memory.)
  - szundi 3y ago
    We had this in c++ reading rfid tags. Solution was addig on character: ^
    - egman_ekki 3y ago
      Typical off by on
      - pksebben 3y ago
        What you did there. I see i
    - kabdib 3y ago
      I spent two weeks once tracking down a kernel scheduler bug. The fix was to swap two instructions. That was a hard one, hard-won.
- contravariant 3y ago
  Hmm, I'm pretty sure it wasn't 1 night, but mostly because there's only so many bugs you can write in a single night.
- yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
  > Bonus points if it's your own 1 night effort. :-) Are you really a serious developer/architect/sysadmin/devops/engineer if you haven't muttered "what was this idiot thinking?" about your own code at least once?
rcme 3y ago
That's not a kind reading of the complaint. Someone added a "feature" (baked light maps) with one day's worth of work. However, the feature was incomplete and broken and it took a whole year to "fix." That definitely seems like project mismanagement. This ties in to the OP's broader complaints that things are promised and never delivered or delivered in an incomplete and unusable state.
- johnfn 3y ago
  I mean, even that interpretation seems like a wildly distorted view of reality. I've been watching the Godot community for years now and they're one of the most productive teams I've ever seen. Simply looking at the changelogs for minor versions and seeing how many bugs they fix and features they add should be proof enough of this. I mean, my god, for 4.0 they rewrote all of GDScript, and that was just a line item. The fact that someone's pet feature slipped through the cracks for longer than they would have like smacks of either a lack of understanding of the software development process, or entitlement.
  - rcme 3y ago
    > Simply looking at the changelogs for minor versions and seeing how many bugs they fix and features they add should be proof enough of this. I mean, my god, for 4.0 they rewrote all of GDScript, and that was just a line item. This doesn't disagree with OP at all. For instance, I remember the announcement for baked lightmaps. According to OP, despite the fanfare, the feature didn't actually work. I don't use Godot, so I can't really comment on the validity of OP's claims, but just reading the changelogs isn't sufficient to dismiss OP either.
  - Hamcha 3y ago
    The changelogs don't tell the full story. I've been trying to use the C# since Godot 3.0 when it was announced as the new hot feature and.. it wasn't ready, it was missing big essential integrations (like exported variables). Then 3.1 comes around promising "no for real, it works now" and it STILL wasn't ready. Sadly I've been noticing that this overpromising and underdelivering is the trend in the release notes.
ambicapter 3y ago
> But it's understandable that there are bugs, particularly with a large codebase and many contributers. The main issue I have is the broken promises and lies. For example, once on Twitter I asked Juan about why mixed mode shadows were not supported (this is when the level is baked but characters have real time lighting, a standard feature in Unity and Unreal). And he tells me that shadow mapping is faster. I don't know if he misunderstood me, but real-time shadows are not going to be faster than baked lighting. There is a reason almost every AAA game in the last 20 years has used some form of pre-computation. Eventually I found someone with the same problem, and they looked in the code and it was actually a 1-line fix (I saw the image, it worked). But the PR was never merged, for whatever reason. I also had a problem where I loaded a DirectX normal map into Godot (which uses OpenGL coordinate space) and it was messed up. I mentioned I had the wrong normals, and he says there is only one normal format, despite like 20 years of history of differences between DirectX and OpenGL. Again, I thought there might have been a misunderstanding, but these little kinds of things were starting to add up. Doesn't seem like I'd give the Godot developers full benefit of the doubt either.
- anon84873628 3y ago
  Yeah, I read the HN comments before the actual post, and it was less unreasonable and unhinged than I was expecting.

wahnfrieden 3y ago

…

droptablemain 3y ago
Well maybe she shouldn't frontload her argument with stupid fluff.
- readthenotes1 3y ago
  Complainant is consistent in that her main complaint is also... Not very realistic, maybe what you would call stupid fluff.
cirrus3 3y ago
The statement says a lot actually

iaaan 3y ago

Yeah, there's a lot of entitlement in this post. It sounds like this person is mad that they heavily financially contributed to an open-source project and they didn't get a return on their investment. I don't have enough context from this post alone to understand what is going on with the $8MM situation, but if the rest of the post is anything to go by, sounds like a nothingburger.

a1o 3y ago
If I understood the person is also the maintainer of the forums (dev + admin), so probably more contribution in time than money, and the time being significant part of the person life.
- readthenotes1 3y ago
  He mentioned that just paying for the forms cost $100s a month, so yes he is investing heavily. Having that kind of money to throw at it makes it kind of odd that he doesn't understand financing and how it would be fraudulent to raise money for W4 and then spend it on the game engine
  - devmor 3y ago
    Eh, people can have money and not understand finance. Early in my career I had a very lucky and very lucrative contract that gave me a six figure income at 23 years old. I was not experienced enough to understand financing but I paid for a lot of things for other people’s projects and hobbies because I felt like doing so.

cirrus3 3y ago

yea, or any project really... making something and making something that works right can be wildly different amounts of effort I was also put off by the use of the term "scam". Seems like the person is just upset funds are not being spent in the way he would like and yea maybe that is a problem, but "scam" is a leap.

kabdib 3y ago

How many folks here have spent linear weeks patching up someone else's 1 night efforts? [/me raises one hand, buries face in the other] Bonus points if it's your own 1 night effort. :-)

Terr_ 3y ago
Or the wonderful week+ bugs where the fix turns out to be a single line. (Especially when it comes down to something that corrupts memory.)
- szundi 3y ago
  We had this in c++ reading rfid tags. Solution was addig on character: ^
  - egman_ekki 3y ago
    Typical off by on
    - pksebben 3y ago
      What you did there. I see i
  - kabdib 3y ago
    I spent two weeks once tracking down a kernel scheduler bug. The fix was to swap two instructions. That was a hard one, hard-won.
contravariant 3y ago
Hmm, I'm pretty sure it wasn't 1 night, but mostly because there's only so many bugs you can write in a single night.
yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
> Bonus points if it's your own 1 night effort. :-) Are you really a serious developer/architect/sysadmin/devops/engineer if you haven't muttered "what was this idiot thinking?" about your own code at least once?

rcme 3y ago

That's not a kind reading of the complaint. Someone added a "feature" (baked light maps) with one day's worth of work. However, the feature was incomplete and broken and it took a whole year to "fix." That definitely seems like project mismanagement. This ties in to the OP's broader complaints that things are promised and never delivered or delivered in an incomplete and unusable state.

johnfn 3y ago
I mean, even that interpretation seems like a wildly distorted view of reality. I've been watching the Godot community for years now and they're one of the most productive teams I've ever seen. Simply looking at the changelogs for minor versions and seeing how many bugs they fix and features they add should be proof enough of this. I mean, my god, for 4.0 they rewrote all of GDScript, and that was just a line item. The fact that someone's pet feature slipped through the cracks for longer than they would have like smacks of either a lack of understanding of the software development process, or entitlement.
- rcme 3y ago
  > Simply looking at the changelogs for minor versions and seeing how many bugs they fix and features they add should be proof enough of this. I mean, my god, for 4.0 they rewrote all of GDScript, and that was just a line item. This doesn't disagree with OP at all. For instance, I remember the announcement for baked lightmaps. According to OP, despite the fanfare, the feature didn't actually work. I don't use Godot, so I can't really comment on the validity of OP's claims, but just reading the changelogs isn't sufficient to dismiss OP either.
- Hamcha 3y ago
  The changelogs don't tell the full story. I've been trying to use the C# since Godot 3.0 when it was announced as the new hot feature and.. it wasn't ready, it was missing big essential integrations (like exported variables). Then 3.1 comes around promising "no for real, it works now" and it STILL wasn't ready. Sadly I've been noticing that this overpromising and underdelivering is the trend in the release notes.

ambicapter 3y ago

> But it's understandable that there are bugs, particularly with a large codebase and many contributers. The main issue I have is the broken promises and lies. For example, once on Twitter I asked Juan about why mixed mode shadows were not supported (this is when the level is baked but characters have real time lighting, a standard feature in Unity and Unreal). And he tells me that shadow mapping is faster. I don't know if he misunderstood me, but real-time shadows are not going to be faster than baked lighting. There is a reason almost every AAA game in the last 20 years has used some form of pre-computation. Eventually I found someone with the same problem, and they looked in the code and it was actually a 1-line fix (I saw the image, it worked). But the PR was never merged, for whatever reason. I also had a problem where I loaded a DirectX normal map into Godot (which uses OpenGL coordinate space) and it was messed up. I mentioned I had the wrong normals, and he says there is only one normal format, despite like 20 years of history of differences between DirectX and OpenGL. Again, I thought there might have been a misunderstanding, but these little kinds of things were starting to add up. Doesn't seem like I'd give the Godot developers full benefit of the doubt either.

anon84873628 3y ago
Yeah, I read the HN comments before the actual post, and it was less unreasonable and unhinged than I was expecting.