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I get what you’re trying to say, but honestly? All this does is hurt the reputation of crypto further. It’s yet another headline about crypto scams/ponzi scheme

I get what you’re trying to say, but honestly? All this does is hurt the reputation of crypto further. It’s yet another headline about crypto scams/ponzi scheme/etc. projected to an audience that is weary of being easily scammed out of money they believe to be safer elsewhere. No one who is skeptical or on the fence about crypto is going to see this headline and go “oh good! They must be catching the bad guys, so now I feel more secure about getting into crypto.” Just like no one who sees an explosion in arrests of violent criminals in their home town thinks “good, must be a lot safer here now.”

codetrotter 3y ago
> All this does is hurt the reputation of crypto further. There is exactly one legitimate “crypto”, and it is named Bitcoin. All else ranges from speculative promises about future possibilities (smart contracts etc) to straight up scams. Don’t let the people abusing the name of “crypto” detract from the greatness that was the invention of Bitcoin.
- arlcode 3y ago
  It seems to me that after more than 10 years Bitcoin can be most accurately described as "an investment vehicle hopefully not correlated with the stock market". I guess that's fine and nothing out of the ordinary since people constantly invent new financial instruments. But since more and more trades happen on regulated exchanges and (as was expected) regular financial regulations such as KYC and AML apply it seems not that revolutionary to be honest. No reasonable person would (or does) use Bitcoin as an actual currency if they expect the value to increase in the future so it can't become a means of exchange for real world goods. Most of us have established and secure alternatives for that and inflation doesn't really matter for most of my income (which is spent within 30 days). Even people in countries with unstable government mostly seem to prefer other methods. Maybe I'm missing something but given all that the underlying technology of Bitcoin and friends look like an implementation Detail that doesn't really matter.
  - codetrotter 3y ago
    > No reasonable person would (or does) use Bitcoin as an actual currency if they expect the value to increase in the future so it can't become a means of exchange for real world goods. I take issue with this statement because it reflects a fundamental misunderstanding that people have about Bitcoin. The point is not to “HODL” the Bitcoins waiting for the USD or EUR value of the BTC to increase. The point is among other things: 1. to be able to freely transact with anyone, and 2. to not have a central authority adjusting the purchasing power of your savings As of yet we are still relegated to caring about the USD and EUR prices of Bitcoin, because in order to use our savings we have to exchange to fiat. But the ultimate goal is indeed to be able to use BTC directly for everything from buying a house to paying for groceries. For example, I receive 100% of my paycheck in bitcoin. From week to week I don’t have any desire that it increases in value of USD or EUR. My main problem is when it decreases in value, so that my purchasing power is worse from having gotten my paycheck in Bitcoin. But even then, over time it probably averages out. And if not, well at least I am still receiving my paycheck in the currency I believe in, and maybe some day more people will believe in it too. And then finally some day I can buy my groceries with BTC directly.
    - Forgeties79 3y ago
      > The point is not to “HODL” the Bitcoins waiting for the USD or EUR value of the BTC to increase. This is some pretty typical “no true Scotsman” stuff if we’re being honest. If you go to a crypto sub or forum any given day, they will all say “no no no bitcion isn't for daily use, you want ______ coin.” one day. The next day it’s “HODL, DCA in on a few cryptos, and watch it rise.” Two days later when it crashes it’s “I never thought it was good for currency, I just like the tech.”
- tromp 3y ago
  There's little illegitimate about a cryptocurrency whose emission averages 1 coin per second forever (not letting the current generation hoard nearly all the supply, or letting the founders get any) and otherwise simplifies many aspects of bitcoin.
- phyro 3y ago
  People tend to forget Bitcoin is a monetary experiment where nobody controls the printer and the total supply over time converges to a certain value. There's no good reason not to try a different model of supply e.g. a supply function that emulates a clock. An asset like this could be named TIME and a coin could represent a second that passed in real life. Valuing time as money would make for an interesting experiment.
bottlepalm 3y ago
The nice thing about Bitcoin is that it's success is not based on good/bad PR. Bitcoin has a solid technical foundation and practical use cases that has weathered every kind of criticism for over 10 years now and is still on top. Celsius and earn programs/scams like it is just another trial Bitcoin has passed through and is stronger for it.
- alangibson 3y ago
  > practical use cases This is satire right?
  - bottlepalm 3y ago
    Moving large amounts of money 24/7 worldwide, outside of any bank, quickly, low transaction fee - pure P2P, and then being able to store it securely outside of a bank in your pocket. Have you dealt with wiring money before? How about holding large amounts of currency or gold outside of a bank? It sucks.
    - pessimizer 3y ago
      The problem is that the use case is generally criminal, which crypto people elide by complaining about whichever country's government is currently being attacked in the media. They do this in order to make dodging taxes and government oversight sound heroic. It's also a way to transform a conversation about fraud and free-riding into easy nationalist cheerleading. What people want is anonymity, cheap/free checking, and cheap/free money transfers. Crypto thus far has partially supplied the first, and is so bad at the second two that the only profitable reason to use it is to dodge some sort of official oversight when dealing with large amounts of money.
      - bottlepalm 3y ago
        I must be a criminal then lol. Banks are a pain in the ass to deal with. Bitcoin is a very practical and easy way to move large amounts of money around. That's why a lot of people use it. We pay our taxes when transacting it just the same. If you don't use Bitcoin, great, but don't make assumptions about those of us who do.

codetrotter 3y ago

> All this does is hurt the reputation of crypto further. There is exactly one legitimate “crypto”, and it is named Bitcoin. All else ranges from speculative promises about future possibilities (smart contracts etc) to straight up scams. Don’t let the people abusing the name of “crypto” detract from the greatness that was the invention of Bitcoin.

arlcode 3y ago
It seems to me that after more than 10 years Bitcoin can be most accurately described as "an investment vehicle hopefully not correlated with the stock market". I guess that's fine and nothing out of the ordinary since people constantly invent new financial instruments. But since more and more trades happen on regulated exchanges and (as was expected) regular financial regulations such as KYC and AML apply it seems not that revolutionary to be honest. No reasonable person would (or does) use Bitcoin as an actual currency if they expect the value to increase in the future so it can't become a means of exchange for real world goods. Most of us have established and secure alternatives for that and inflation doesn't really matter for most of my income (which is spent within 30 days). Even people in countries with unstable government mostly seem to prefer other methods. Maybe I'm missing something but given all that the underlying technology of Bitcoin and friends look like an implementation Detail that doesn't really matter.
- codetrotter 3y ago
  > No reasonable person would (or does) use Bitcoin as an actual currency if they expect the value to increase in the future so it can't become a means of exchange for real world goods. I take issue with this statement because it reflects a fundamental misunderstanding that people have about Bitcoin. The point is not to “HODL” the Bitcoins waiting for the USD or EUR value of the BTC to increase. The point is among other things: 1. to be able to freely transact with anyone, and 2. to not have a central authority adjusting the purchasing power of your savings As of yet we are still relegated to caring about the USD and EUR prices of Bitcoin, because in order to use our savings we have to exchange to fiat. But the ultimate goal is indeed to be able to use BTC directly for everything from buying a house to paying for groceries. For example, I receive 100% of my paycheck in bitcoin. From week to week I don’t have any desire that it increases in value of USD or EUR. My main problem is when it decreases in value, so that my purchasing power is worse from having gotten my paycheck in Bitcoin. But even then, over time it probably averages out. And if not, well at least I am still receiving my paycheck in the currency I believe in, and maybe some day more people will believe in it too. And then finally some day I can buy my groceries with BTC directly.
  - Forgeties79 3y ago
    > The point is not to “HODL” the Bitcoins waiting for the USD or EUR value of the BTC to increase. This is some pretty typical “no true Scotsman” stuff if we’re being honest. If you go to a crypto sub or forum any given day, they will all say “no no no bitcion isn't for daily use, you want ______ coin.” one day. The next day it’s “HODL, DCA in on a few cryptos, and watch it rise.” Two days later when it crashes it’s “I never thought it was good for currency, I just like the tech.”
tromp 3y ago
There's little illegitimate about a cryptocurrency whose emission averages 1 coin per second forever (not letting the current generation hoard nearly all the supply, or letting the founders get any) and otherwise simplifies many aspects of bitcoin.
phyro 3y ago
People tend to forget Bitcoin is a monetary experiment where nobody controls the printer and the total supply over time converges to a certain value. There's no good reason not to try a different model of supply e.g. a supply function that emulates a clock. An asset like this could be named TIME and a coin could represent a second that passed in real life. Valuing time as money would make for an interesting experiment.

bottlepalm 3y ago

The nice thing about Bitcoin is that it's success is not based on good/bad PR. Bitcoin has a solid technical foundation and practical use cases that has weathered every kind of criticism for over 10 years now and is still on top. Celsius and earn programs/scams like it is just another trial Bitcoin has passed through and is stronger for it.

alangibson 3y ago
> practical use cases This is satire right?
- bottlepalm 3y ago
  Moving large amounts of money 24/7 worldwide, outside of any bank, quickly, low transaction fee - pure P2P, and then being able to store it securely outside of a bank in your pocket. Have you dealt with wiring money before? How about holding large amounts of currency or gold outside of a bank? It sucks.
  - pessimizer 3y ago
    The problem is that the use case is generally criminal, which crypto people elide by complaining about whichever country's government is currently being attacked in the media. They do this in order to make dodging taxes and government oversight sound heroic. It's also a way to transform a conversation about fraud and free-riding into easy nationalist cheerleading. What people want is anonymity, cheap/free checking, and cheap/free money transfers. Crypto thus far has partially supplied the first, and is so bad at the second two that the only profitable reason to use it is to dodge some sort of official oversight when dealing with large amounts of money.
    - bottlepalm 3y ago
      I must be a criminal then lol. Banks are a pain in the ass to deal with. Bitcoin is a very practical and easy way to move large amounts of money around. That's why a lot of people use it. We pay our taxes when transacting it just the same. If you don't use Bitcoin, great, but don't make assumptions about those of us who do.