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Thousands of Ukraine civilians are being held in Russian prisons. More planned

37 points by MilnerRoute 3y ago

bell-cot 3y ago
Only "thousands"? By historical Russian standards, that's a rounding error. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulag https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulag ):
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- throwaway290 3y ago
  Don't worry, meanwhile prisons are emptying as criminals who agree to join the military get their record cleared! Not joking, that's a recent executive order It would be interesting to see where crime rates in Russia end up after the war (but of course UA has started to mow the invaders down pretty well so those felons are just more easy meat.)
badkmw 3y ago
This is some coping by MSM propaganda, lying between their bottoms. And with the advent of AI and chatgpt, this is just going to get worse!
- bshipp 3y ago
  Unfortunately for Russians, the fact they allowed their country to invade a peaceful neighbor in an unprovoked war of aggression and then repeatedly lied about almost every facet of that invasion means that the rest of the world will likely not give them the benefit of the doubt for another 50 years, even if they magically start telling the truth right now.
  - bell-cot 3y ago
    > Russians...they allowed their country to invade... Considering that ~99.99% of Russians had neither any say in the "invade or not?" decision, nor meaningful advanced notice of the invasion...this might not be the best way to frame things. I'd take the [cough] patriotic zeal and [snort] heroic vigor with which 99.99% of Russian citizens resisted the criminal Prigozhin's doomed coup attempt as the best evidence of their real feelings on the subject.
    - bshipp 3y ago
      Putin has been in power for 20 years and the invasions of Georgia and Crimea gave all evidence necessary that he had imperialistic goals. Considering the pride Russians proclaim regarding their role in defeating a WWII dictator, it's ironic they refuse to lift a finger to handle the one they raised and enabled at home.
    - type0 3y ago
      I think you're underestimating the support for this war from Russian populace
    - cmurf 3y ago
      Prigozhin being cheered. https://www.rferl.org/a/prigozhin-wagner-cheered-leaving-rostov-on-don-russia/32474809.html https://www.rferl.org/a/prigozhin-wagner-cheered-leaving-ros... Wagner, his mercenary army, selling sledgehammers as home decorations. For those not familiar with how Wagner treats its deserters, they are hunted down, tortured and then have their head bashed in with a sledgehammer. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/03/19/wagner-mercenary-group-starts-selling-famous-sledgehammers-home/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/03/19/wagner-mer... The exact split of Russians who aren't in favor of the war is surely difficult to determine. But it's not so high that Russians have had a revolution over it. Yet. And unlike 1992, Russian revolutions are usually very violent, and have often resulted from failed wars. Russians don't like being revealed to be losers. I guess.
    - throwaway290 3y ago
      The invasion started in 2014. There are people who understood back then and protested. There were also active supporters and people who believed the government that ukrainians engaged in a genocide of russians. But forget about them. Most of techies and people I know have been what counts as "supporters by default". They don't watch TV, don't listen to what government says, read western media and low key ridicule putin. They knew something is going on but did not care to understand and protest what's happening. It's "politics" to them and they are "above" it. Me included. I am only catching up now after the war entered this phase in 2022. But with no GFW like in China nothing prevented me from becoming aware earlier and doing whatever (protesting, emigrating) except my own convenience. Some people still don't get it really. They just left the country to evade mandatory conscription end of last year. They continue to be supporters by default in other countries.
armitron 3y ago
Still -being a realist- hoping that Ukraine quickly yields so we don't end up in WW3. Something has to give, and if history is any guide, it won't be the Russians.
- tryptophan 3y ago
  Still -being a realist- hoping that ww3-concern trolls parroting russian propaganda shut up soon.
  - jfengel 3y ago
    That's optimism, not realism. I wish it were otherwise, but the concern trolls will likely outlast the war.
- cmurf 3y ago
  Aggressive war is proscribed in the UN Charter to which Russia is a signatory. It's proscribed because it leads to wider conflict including world wars, and is the supreme international crime. Russia is a signatory to the Geneva Convention and Budapest Memorandum, but they tore up those agreements too. And instead, Russia published a genocide handbook. https://human-rights.cmc.edu/2022/04/14/russias-genocide-handbook/ https://human-rights.cmc.edu/2022/04/14/russias-genocide-han... All UN members have an article 51 right to collective self defense with Ukraine. This agreement came straight out of the ashes of two world wars expressly to prevent a 3rd word war. And here you are arguing against the charter, among the many imperfect things we need to try and do better as a species. And arguing against self-defense. And arguing in favor of tyranny. Go fuck yourself.
- _kbh_ 3y ago
  > Still -being a realist- hoping that Ukraine quickly yields so we don't end up in WW3. How many of your family members would you trade for your realist views?. How many of your brothers, sisters, nieces and nephews would you happily feed into a wood chipper or allow to be raped and tortured with no consequence?. How much of your land would you give up?. > Something has to give, and if history is any guide, it won't be the Russians. Russia and the USSR lost wars just like everyone else. There’s plenty of historical precedence for them giving up and going home.

37 points by MilnerRoute 3y ago

Only "thousands"? By historical Russian standards, that's a rounding error. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulag https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulag ):

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
throwaway290 3y ago
Don't worry, meanwhile prisons are emptying as criminals who agree to join the military get their record cleared! Not joking, that's a recent executive order It would be interesting to see where crime rates in Russia end up after the war (but of course UA has started to mow the invaders down pretty well so those felons are just more easy meat.)

badkmw 3y ago

This is some coping by MSM propaganda, lying between their bottoms. And with the advent of AI and chatgpt, this is just going to get worse!

bshipp 3y ago
Unfortunately for Russians, the fact they allowed their country to invade a peaceful neighbor in an unprovoked war of aggression and then repeatedly lied about almost every facet of that invasion means that the rest of the world will likely not give them the benefit of the doubt for another 50 years, even if they magically start telling the truth right now.
- bell-cot 3y ago
  > Russians...they allowed their country to invade... Considering that ~99.99% of Russians had neither any say in the "invade or not?" decision, nor meaningful advanced notice of the invasion...this might not be the best way to frame things. I'd take the [cough] patriotic zeal and [snort] heroic vigor with which 99.99% of Russian citizens resisted the criminal Prigozhin's doomed coup attempt as the best evidence of their real feelings on the subject.
  - bshipp 3y ago
    Putin has been in power for 20 years and the invasions of Georgia and Crimea gave all evidence necessary that he had imperialistic goals. Considering the pride Russians proclaim regarding their role in defeating a WWII dictator, it's ironic they refuse to lift a finger to handle the one they raised and enabled at home.
  - type0 3y ago
    I think you're underestimating the support for this war from Russian populace
  - cmurf 3y ago
    Prigozhin being cheered. https://www.rferl.org/a/prigozhin-wagner-cheered-leaving-rostov-on-don-russia/32474809.html https://www.rferl.org/a/prigozhin-wagner-cheered-leaving-ros... Wagner, his mercenary army, selling sledgehammers as home decorations. For those not familiar with how Wagner treats its deserters, they are hunted down, tortured and then have their head bashed in with a sledgehammer. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/03/19/wagner-mercenary-group-starts-selling-famous-sledgehammers-home/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/03/19/wagner-mer... The exact split of Russians who aren't in favor of the war is surely difficult to determine. But it's not so high that Russians have had a revolution over it. Yet. And unlike 1992, Russian revolutions are usually very violent, and have often resulted from failed wars. Russians don't like being revealed to be losers. I guess.
  - throwaway290 3y ago
    The invasion started in 2014. There are people who understood back then and protested. There were also active supporters and people who believed the government that ukrainians engaged in a genocide of russians. But forget about them. Most of techies and people I know have been what counts as "supporters by default". They don't watch TV, don't listen to what government says, read western media and low key ridicule putin. They knew something is going on but did not care to understand and protest what's happening. It's "politics" to them and they are "above" it. Me included. I am only catching up now after the war entered this phase in 2022. But with no GFW like in China nothing prevented me from becoming aware earlier and doing whatever (protesting, emigrating) except my own convenience. Some people still don't get it really. They just left the country to evade mandatory conscription end of last year. They continue to be supporters by default in other countries.

armitron 3y ago

Still -being a realist- hoping that Ukraine quickly yields so we don't end up in WW3. Something has to give, and if history is any guide, it won't be the Russians.

tryptophan 3y ago
Still -being a realist- hoping that ww3-concern trolls parroting russian propaganda shut up soon.
- jfengel 3y ago
  That's optimism, not realism. I wish it were otherwise, but the concern trolls will likely outlast the war.
cmurf 3y ago
Aggressive war is proscribed in the UN Charter to which Russia is a signatory. It's proscribed because it leads to wider conflict including world wars, and is the supreme international crime. Russia is a signatory to the Geneva Convention and Budapest Memorandum, but they tore up those agreements too. And instead, Russia published a genocide handbook. https://human-rights.cmc.edu/2022/04/14/russias-genocide-handbook/ https://human-rights.cmc.edu/2022/04/14/russias-genocide-han... All UN members have an article 51 right to collective self defense with Ukraine. This agreement came straight out of the ashes of two world wars expressly to prevent a 3rd word war. And here you are arguing against the charter, among the many imperfect things we need to try and do better as a species. And arguing against self-defense. And arguing in favor of tyranny. Go fuck yourself.
_kbh_ 3y ago
> Still -being a realist- hoping that Ukraine quickly yields so we don't end up in WW3. How many of your family members would you trade for your realist views?. How many of your brothers, sisters, nieces and nephews would you happily feed into a wood chipper or allow to be raped and tortured with no consequence?. How much of your land would you give up?. > Something has to give, and if history is any guide, it won't be the Russians. Russia and the USSR lost wars just like everyone else. There’s plenty of historical precedence for them giving up and going home.