5 ms·

More importantly: if you place so insanely high value on that ONE new programmer you are hiring and you can obviously abso-frakking-lutely not afford to have pi

by kahawe 15y ago

More importantly: if you place so insanely high value on that ONE new programmer you are hiring and you can obviously abso-frakking-lutely not afford to have picked a single "bad apple" then that says a LOT about the situation of your company, your management and what state the projects are in. All these steps feel like bordering Stasi-methods (hey, why not lie-detector test the applicant while you are at it!) but I'm sorry, this is really extremely over-doing it in contrast to the other extreme, the "oh you have a cool tshirt and unwashed hair you must be a genius!" hiring that was done in the dotcom bubble. It's really not rocket science...

mattdeboard 15y ago
Er, for many, many employers (like mine) with very small dev shops -- I'm talking 2 devs here -- a single bad hire DOES have an extremely deleterious effect on everyone and everything else. Not everyone works at an organization with so many devs that they can afford to have an incompetent 10%. If you'd like I can regale you with my personal experience on just how damaging a bad hire can be. All steps SHOULD be taken to avoid bad hires, and ... I'm sorry I really just cannot believe I'm even having to say this. Where the hell do you WORK? What do you do for a living? I seriously can't imagine anyone I know holding the belief that it's no big deal to hire a bad programmer.
- devs1010 15y ago
  If your company is that small then I agree you need to be more careful but you also need to find someone who basically wants to work at a startup, any company with just 2 dev's isn't a "normal job", even if its not technically considered a startup you would still need to approach hiring as if you are.
- Spoom 15y ago
  I'll echo this. We also have just two devs currently (soon to be four!) and we are still finding issues that were caused by the previous third developer, who was let go several months ago. Some of these bugs have brought the production system down for one or more of our clients. I'm quite certain that if he has gone through Jeff's process he would have been filtered out prior to being hired.
- pavel_lishin 15y ago
  chomp chomp chomp
- kahawe 15y ago
  I wasn't talking about holding on to a bad dev for 5 years... I was talking about the possibility of hiring a "bad" dev and seeing how they do in a real work situation for a couple of months maybe. Typically it should become very clear pretty damn quickly, in a matter of weeks. If you cannot afford that to happen then you have no business opening a dev position and you are VERY likely better off with trying to make it with the devs you currently have available. I seriously doubt those almost-Stasi methods will ultimately get you a 100% sure pick - so you will ALWAYS have to deal with the possibility of having picked a bad one, but those methods will very likely drive the real good ones away because they couldn't care less and usually they have TONS of other options available. Do you really expect a potential employee to implement a customer-requested feature you are getting paid for for free, just for the mercy of being allowed to apply at your small 2-men shop? Really? You expect your employees to be productive and billable from the first hour they work for you? Sorry, good devs would never ever work for you... they have way better and more rewarding and realistic options available. Nobody worth your time or money works for free - or do you give your customers a "freebie" without ANY strings attached?

by kahawe 15y ago

mattdeboard 15y ago

Er, for many, many employers (like mine) with very small dev shops -- I'm talking 2 devs here -- a single bad hire DOES have an extremely deleterious effect on everyone and everything else. Not everyone works at an organization with so many devs that they can afford to have an incompetent 10%. If you'd like I can regale you with my personal experience on just how damaging a bad hire can be. All steps SHOULD be taken to avoid bad hires, and ... I'm sorry I really just cannot believe I'm even having to say this. Where the hell do you WORK? What do you do for a living? I seriously can't imagine anyone I know holding the belief that it's no big deal to hire a bad programmer.

devs1010 15y ago
If your company is that small then I agree you need to be more careful but you also need to find someone who basically wants to work at a startup, any company with just 2 dev's isn't a "normal job", even if its not technically considered a startup you would still need to approach hiring as if you are.
Spoom 15y ago
I'll echo this. We also have just two devs currently (soon to be four!) and we are still finding issues that were caused by the previous third developer, who was let go several months ago. Some of these bugs have brought the production system down for one or more of our clients. I'm quite certain that if he has gone through Jeff's process he would have been filtered out prior to being hired.
pavel_lishin 15y ago
chomp chomp chomp
kahawe 15y ago
I wasn't talking about holding on to a bad dev for 5 years... I was talking about the possibility of hiring a "bad" dev and seeing how they do in a real work situation for a couple of months maybe. Typically it should become very clear pretty damn quickly, in a matter of weeks. If you cannot afford that to happen then you have no business opening a dev position and you are VERY likely better off with trying to make it with the devs you currently have available. I seriously doubt those almost-Stasi methods will ultimately get you a 100% sure pick - so you will ALWAYS have to deal with the possibility of having picked a bad one, but those methods will very likely drive the real good ones away because they couldn't care less and usually they have TONS of other options available. Do you really expect a potential employee to implement a customer-requested feature you are getting paid for for free, just for the mercy of being allowed to apply at your small 2-men shop? Really? You expect your employees to be productive and billable from the first hour they work for you? Sorry, good devs would never ever work for you... they have way better and more rewarding and realistic options available. Nobody worth your time or money works for free - or do you give your customers a "freebie" without ANY strings attached?