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It's often funny to me how there will be such a massive gnashing of teeth about whether or not something is prescription or OTC available to women, when Men ess
by maerF0x0 3y ago
It's often funny to me how there will be such a massive gnashing of teeth about whether or not something is prescription or OTC available to women, when Men essentially have no contraceptive choice and have 100% liability the moment it leaves our body, potentially including in cases of paternity fraud.
It'd be like if we told women they had to have the baby the moment their egg accepts a sperm, regardless of the reasons it ended up there.
- isykt 3y agoMen can wear condoms and/or get a vasectomy.
- maerF0x0 3y agoWomen can wear condoms and/or get Tubal ligation. And yet Men have 100% liability the moment it leaves our body, potentially including in cases of paternity fraud.
- lotsofpulp 3y ago[flagged]
- maerF0x0 3y agoPaternity fraud is if it becomes a He said she said about how she became pregnant. See the whole NBA condom controversy.
- lotsofpulp 3y agoOh, I thought it meant when courts require the non biological father to pay child support. I can see your description being relevant, but at that point you should probably be getting video testimony of consent before engaging in sex, preferably with a notary type witness. I am just half joking, I do not really know what any other solution would be to a he said she said scenario.
- bamfly 3y ago> If men do not want kids, it is easy for them not to. Weird to see the "your CHOICE was when you CHOSE to have sex!" anti-abortion argument re-purposed in this way, but, OK.
- lotsofpulp 3y agoNot really, as a woman’s pregnancy affects her body and life quite a bit more drastically than it affects a man. Ideally, men would be equal in this regard, but nature does not work like that so we have to work with what we have. If you can come up with a better solution that does not violate a woman’s autonomy over their body and also does not let men off the hook for providing for their kids, I am all ears (or eyes I guess). Perhaps the government provides for everyone’s kids?
- bamfly 3y agoOh, I agree it's complex and there are meaningful differences in how the whole pregnancy thing is experienced, and that the needs of kids maybe should override weird selfish libertarian-adjacent "pft, totally unfair to make me pay for any of this!" attitudes (cases of actual fraud being... another matter, potentially). I was just caught off guard by that particular argument being employed in that way. "Well it's easy for a man to simply not have sex, if they don't want kids they shouldn't have sex, that's the end of that" is... not usually well-received (and shouldn't be) when the positions are reversed, even when the context is entirely about consensual sex.
- lotsofpulp 3y ago> even when the context is entirely about consensual sex. I thought this context was about ensuring women have access to over the counter birth control, which can be a benefit in the case of consensual and non consensual sexual. Especially in non consensual sex.
- maerF0x0 3y ago> , as a woman’s pregnancy affects her body and life quite a bit more drastically than it affects a man. Until he's hit with life time payments for a child they agreed would be aborted, and he's thrown in jail for not paying it.
- isykt 3y agoIt pretty much evens out, given what being pregnant does to someone. You could always just sleep with men if it really bothers you that much.
- maerF0x0 3y agoThe same could be said to women i guess. your point transposes to > If women don't like the risk of getting pregnant and not being allowed to have an abortion, they can just sleep with women. It's both insensitive and obviously not a good argument.
- az_reth 3y agoOr just stop showering /s
- loeg 3y agoProviders can be loath to give men vasectomies if they haven't already had children. That's changing, but still can be a barrier.
- xyzzy_plugh 3y ago> It'd be like if we told women they had to have the baby the moment their egg accepts a sperm, regardless of the reasons it ended up there. I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not here, but that is pretty much what exactly is happening in much of the USA. It's sad, disappointing and, frankly, irrational, at least from the perspective you present.
- PraetorianGourd 3y agoA majority of Americans still have access to abortion that is _less_ restrictive than most EU countries. The Supreme Court did not outlaw abortion. In my state, abortions can be legally performed right up until birth.
- Levitz 3y agoTelling this to other Europeans who comment stuff like "I can't believe they outlawed abortion in the US" just doesn't get old. From "Damned brutal patriarchy" to "Damned children murderers" in less than 5 seconds.
- PraetorianGourd 3y agoI always wonder why the truth gets buried. What I said was accurate, but it does go against several popular narratives. Nobody wants nuance, but these things are entirely comprised of nuance.
- maerF0x0 3y agoI agree. What I'm pointing at is that it's sufficiently similar that it's unfair to do the same to a man.