4 ms·

You're right that women ought to be the ones in charge of dealing with this sort of thing, but I don't think a bunch of guys presenting positions that are gener

You're right that women ought to be the ones in charge of dealing with this sort of thing, but I don't think a bunch of guys presenting positions that are generally skeptical of the FDA restricting things that are generally considered safe from being sold OTC (even if not for the right reasons) are the reason that it took a long time for this to be approved to be sold OTC.

maerF0x0 3y ago
> You're right that women ought to be the ones in charge of dealing with this sort of thing, That's pretty contrary to the typical diversity rationale that suggests out group people have valuable inputs. I think it makes a lot of sense to have society as a whole making decisions about how society as a whole operates. It's not just an individual's choice if they take a drug which may or may not end up being like thalidomide. At the very least it affects fathers, and those born with the side effects. Of course women should have a voice in this area, but also should many other groups :)
- mathisfun123 3y ago
  everything in this reply espouses ideas and positions that are literal antitheses of a liberal society.
  - mcpackieh 3y ago
    In liberal democracies, people have a right to get to have their say (on a soap box and at the ballot box) in matters that don't rationally concern them.
    - mathisfun123 3y ago
      have a say but not dictate. so my point isn't that the response says things but that it advocates for policy/governance.
      - mcpackieh 3y ago
        In a liberal democracy, a common citizen 'dictating' simply means saying something with a jackass commanding tone. Such advocacy for policy/governance is a protected right in liberal democracies. It is my right to say: "I command you to dye yourself blue and dance for my amusement." And it's your right to tell me to fuck off.
        mathisfun123 3y ago
        read my words carefully: i didn't say anything about the words themselves, nor the act of speaking those words, i said the ideas and positions are antithetical.
        mcpackieh 3y ago
        The idea to which you responded was the assertion that people have a right to vote in matters that don't concern them. This is the central premise of liberal democracy.
saghm 3y ago
> I don't think a bunch of guys presenting positions that are generally skeptical of the FDA restricting things that are generally considered safe from being sold OTC (even if not for the right reasons) are the reason that it took a long time for this to be approved to be sold OTC. Well yeah, the men who prevented it from being OTC for so long didn't do it out of skepticism that it was safe; just like every other time women's rights have been restricted, it's about control. Concern over medical safety is just a convenient political distraction to avoid having to defend regressive social policies. If the people who rules like these actually cared about women's health, they would take into consideration that some women need medication like this for issues that aren't related to trying to avoid pregnancy when having sex. Even labeling medication "birth control" is just a way to ignore the fact that sometimes there are conditions that affect the reproductive system without a woman becoming (or trying to become) pregnant, and sometimes these medications can help with those.

maerF0x0 3y ago

> You're right that women ought to be the ones in charge of dealing with this sort of thing, That's pretty contrary to the typical diversity rationale that suggests out group people have valuable inputs. I think it makes a lot of sense to have society as a whole making decisions about how society as a whole operates. It's not just an individual's choice if they take a drug which may or may not end up being like thalidomide. At the very least it affects fathers, and those born with the side effects. Of course women should have a voice in this area, but also should many other groups :)

mathisfun123 3y ago
everything in this reply espouses ideas and positions that are literal antitheses of a liberal society.
- mcpackieh 3y ago
  In liberal democracies, people have a right to get to have their say (on a soap box and at the ballot box) in matters that don't rationally concern them.
  - mathisfun123 3y ago
    have a say but not dictate. so my point isn't that the response says things but that it advocates for policy/governance.
    - mcpackieh 3y ago
      In a liberal democracy, a common citizen 'dictating' simply means saying something with a jackass commanding tone. Such advocacy for policy/governance is a protected right in liberal democracies. It is my right to say: "I command you to dye yourself blue and dance for my amusement." And it's your right to tell me to fuck off.
      - mathisfun123 3y ago
        read my words carefully: i didn't say anything about the words themselves, nor the act of speaking those words, i said the ideas and positions are antithetical.
        mcpackieh 3y ago
        The idea to which you responded was the assertion that people have a right to vote in matters that don't concern them. This is the central premise of liberal democracy.

saghm 3y ago

> I don't think a bunch of guys presenting positions that are generally skeptical of the FDA restricting things that are generally considered safe from being sold OTC (even if not for the right reasons) are the reason that it took a long time for this to be approved to be sold OTC. Well yeah, the men who prevented it from being OTC for so long didn't do it out of skepticism that it was safe; just like every other time women's rights have been restricted, it's about control. Concern over medical safety is just a convenient political distraction to avoid having to defend regressive social policies. If the people who rules like these actually cared about women's health, they would take into consideration that some women need medication like this for issues that aren't related to trying to avoid pregnancy when having sex. Even labeling medication "birth control" is just a way to ignore the fact that sometimes there are conditions that affect the reproductive system without a woman becoming (or trying to become) pregnant, and sometimes these medications can help with those.