4 ms·

> Not to mention, I think people are going to look back at something with a 1% death rate and wonder why we panicked so hard. I'm sorry, but what the hell are

> Not to mention, I think people are going to look back at something with a 1% death rate and wonder why we panicked so hard. I'm sorry, but what the hell are you talking about? In my city there were so many dead people they had to transform a skating rink into a morgue. ER rooms were completely overcrowded, COVID took so much effort to fight in hospitals that other diseases got later diagnoses and treatments, which resulted in even more dead people. Lots of elder people died in care homes because there wasn't any help available for them. There were no ambulances available at all. My mother had to go the hospital due to her infection worsening and she had to stay in the hospital gymnasium in couches, because there weren't enough beds nor space for them. They had to make an improvised hospital in a conference center to hold all the hospitalized people, thousands of them. We had a complete lockdown and it still took several weeks for cases to start decreasing. We panicked so hard because it was fucking scary. Maybe the reason it wasn't for you is that you lived in a place where the government took precautions before it got too big, but I don't think it's ok to be so cavalier about it when so many people had such a hard time.

junofan 3y ago
My city had none of those problems. COVID standard of care w.r.t. intubation was uniquely terrible. Disrupting the daily routines of elders in nursing homes is well-known to drive mortality.
- gjulianm 3y ago
  > My city had none of those problems I think you missed the part where I said "Maybe the reason it wasn't for you is that you lived in a place where the government took precautions before it got too big". > COVID standard of care w.r.t. intubation was uniquely terrible. That's what happens when you're dealing with a disease that's literally three months old and that's saturating the entire health system. We also gave hydroxycloroquine, which was proven later to be useless. We literally knew almost nothing about the disease, what did you expect? Excellent standards of care from the start? > Disrupting the daily routines of elders in nursing homes is well-known to drive mortality. I think that an infectious respiratory disease and the lack of medical care are far more significant drivers of mortality. Seriously, what is your point here?
  - cmrdporcupine 3y ago
    So many of these comments -- they have no point. Just vendettas / resent. Anybody who was paying attention saw the crisis in the healthcare system, and its fall-out. But there's a strong ideological bias among many now to look back in the rear view mirror and pretend nothing was there. But in a way it's not surprising as concern for the vulnerable is clearly not a widely accepted cultural value in many of our societies.
    - mrguyorama 3y ago
      Sooooo many people want to pretend that A MILLION extra deaths are all just "old people being old" or "but but but death WITH covid vs death BY covid". They have to do this because their ideology is that everything about covid was wrong, the vaccine didn't work, it's all the democrats fault and they invented the problem, so any acknowledgement that it actually killed at least a million americans must be avoided, otherwise they have to admit to themselves that not only are they wrong and the people they listen to lied to them, but they were selfish assholes about it. It really sucks. We could have had a great unifying cause to rally against. We could have genuinely improved health outcomes in the US. Fuck, even Donald Trump himself eventually realized this was a bad thing and helped get the vaccine going. But half of the republican platform right now is covid denial. They have to invent a magic reality where their ignorance doesn't kill people, and people who have studied stuff for decades don't know anything.
      - cmrdporcupine 3y ago
        I think it's deeper than just they need to believe the "democrats" or whatever invented it, or so on. There are people intensely invested in an ideological model of the world where solidarity and any kind of collective action are inherently immoral and also that their own self-interest is paramount. They've been taught it since they were kids, regardless of party. Being a selfish asshole is a virtue to them. It's an ideological-ethical system based on might-makes-right and "I'll take whatever I want try to stop me" and at the time the pandemic hit, its chief exponent ("grab em by the pussy") was the president of the United States. Around here in Canada half the people who were going on about "F*ck Trudeau" and anti-mask this and anti-vax that were also taking CERB ("Canada Emergency Response Benefit") payments from the government and bilking the taxpayer for money at the same time. My nextdoor neighbours for example. Savage capitalism as an ideology, who the fuck cares about my neighbour, and screw the old people, all this shit is inconvenient, they gonna die anyways All that said, western governments seemed to come up with marvelous ways of making the whole lockdown & etc suck for the working classes the most. Easy for folks like me who got to work from home but pretty damn vile if you were an hourly wage worker. So I get where a lot of the anger comes from.

junofan 3y ago

My city had none of those problems. COVID standard of care w.r.t. intubation was uniquely terrible. Disrupting the daily routines of elders in nursing homes is well-known to drive mortality.

gjulianm 3y ago
> My city had none of those problems I think you missed the part where I said "Maybe the reason it wasn't for you is that you lived in a place where the government took precautions before it got too big". > COVID standard of care w.r.t. intubation was uniquely terrible. That's what happens when you're dealing with a disease that's literally three months old and that's saturating the entire health system. We also gave hydroxycloroquine, which was proven later to be useless. We literally knew almost nothing about the disease, what did you expect? Excellent standards of care from the start? > Disrupting the daily routines of elders in nursing homes is well-known to drive mortality. I think that an infectious respiratory disease and the lack of medical care are far more significant drivers of mortality. Seriously, what is your point here?
- cmrdporcupine 3y ago
  So many of these comments -- they have no point. Just vendettas / resent. Anybody who was paying attention saw the crisis in the healthcare system, and its fall-out. But there's a strong ideological bias among many now to look back in the rear view mirror and pretend nothing was there. But in a way it's not surprising as concern for the vulnerable is clearly not a widely accepted cultural value in many of our societies.
  - mrguyorama 3y ago
    Sooooo many people want to pretend that A MILLION extra deaths are all just "old people being old" or "but but but death WITH covid vs death BY covid". They have to do this because their ideology is that everything about covid was wrong, the vaccine didn't work, it's all the democrats fault and they invented the problem, so any acknowledgement that it actually killed at least a million americans must be avoided, otherwise they have to admit to themselves that not only are they wrong and the people they listen to lied to them, but they were selfish assholes about it. It really sucks. We could have had a great unifying cause to rally against. We could have genuinely improved health outcomes in the US. Fuck, even Donald Trump himself eventually realized this was a bad thing and helped get the vaccine going. But half of the republican platform right now is covid denial. They have to invent a magic reality where their ignorance doesn't kill people, and people who have studied stuff for decades don't know anything.
    - cmrdporcupine 3y ago
      I think it's deeper than just they need to believe the "democrats" or whatever invented it, or so on. There are people intensely invested in an ideological model of the world where solidarity and any kind of collective action are inherently immoral and also that their own self-interest is paramount. They've been taught it since they were kids, regardless of party. Being a selfish asshole is a virtue to them. It's an ideological-ethical system based on might-makes-right and "I'll take whatever I want try to stop me" and at the time the pandemic hit, its chief exponent ("grab em by the pussy") was the president of the United States. Around here in Canada half the people who were going on about "F*ck Trudeau" and anti-mask this and anti-vax that were also taking CERB ("Canada Emergency Response Benefit") payments from the government and bilking the taxpayer for money at the same time. My nextdoor neighbours for example. Savage capitalism as an ideology, who the fuck cares about my neighbour, and screw the old people, all this shit is inconvenient, they gonna die anyways All that said, western governments seemed to come up with marvelous ways of making the whole lockdown & etc suck for the working classes the most. Easy for folks like me who got to work from home but pretty damn vile if you were an hourly wage worker. So I get where a lot of the anger comes from.