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"Meh"? Please consider what it would feel like to be the sole developer working on this project and then to hear this response from someone in person who you e

by yboris 3y ago

"Meh"? Please consider what it would feel like to be the sole developer working on this project and then to hear this response from someone in person who you excitedly share the idea with. This is not a nice way to respond to someone in person, and it isn't a nice way to respond online. Consider a rephrase: "This is awesome. I am really looking forward to the world when holographic displays make this possible without AR".

pdntspa 3y ago
Let people express their true feelings. We shouldn't be blowing smoke up each other's asses. Criticism is a fact of life and we can't culture our way out of it. There is "nice" and there is honest. And neither are kind (though honesty is much more likely to be kind)
- dagmx 3y ago
  “Meh” isn’t critique let alone criticism. It’s dismissal. It’s not even relevant to this project because what are they expecting them to do? Make bespoke hardware for it? It’s a link to a GitHub page It’s like if someone posted a new Tesla and someone replied with “Meh, should have been a Jetpack”. It’s just completely irrelevant if one were to take as criticism/critique. It’s pure dismissal
  - pdntspa 3y ago
    ...which is a criticism. "It doesn't excite me"
    - dagmx 3y ago
      which is a dismissal. It adds nothing of value, provides no actionable task, doesn’t do anything beyond saying “I want something else” which is like “okay but that’s not within the realm of what this singular person can do so is irrelevant”
      - pdntspa 3y ago
        This is semantics. If I present something and the response is "meh" then that is important information to me. Let people express themselves without policing it. Attitudes like yours create echo chambers of sycophants. I personally hate an environment where the only feedback allowed is positive-to-neutral. Negative things, like dismissal that you seem to hate so much for some reason, are feedback too. Welcome to the thunderdome.
        dagmx 3y ago
        You’re missing the point. Nobody is saying don’t critique it. Critique is constructive. Meh is dismissive Be as brutally critical as needed but criticism should be something of value. “Meh” is the equivalent to “neat”. It adds nothing, but unlike neat, it takes away pride. Also if we’re taking the meta discussion, then you’re doing the same thing you’re saying not to do. People are just giving feedback , but unlike the original comment it’s constructive feedback.
        xwdv 3y ago
        I don’t get it. “Nice job”, “Meh”, and “This sucks.” are all dismissals, but they are also feedback, which is just as important as long form critique. And I didn’t merely say “Meh”, I followed up with some more text and added a new dimension to the discussion.
      - coding123 3y ago
        Not to mention that Dang often tells people to not be dismissive. If you don't like it, click back and see something else. Or do something more important like prepare for standup.
    - Kerb_ 3y ago
      [flagged]
- dang 3y ago
  Yes but there's a difference between just putting down other people's work and making substantive criticisms that the creator(s), as well as us readers, can learn from. That's why the HN guidelines say: "Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something." - https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html We definitely want good critical comments here, so in that sense you're correct—but we don't want shallow internet putdowns. Those grow like weeds, choking out interesting conversation and eventually degrading the entire ecosystem. Your phrase "express their true feelings" is interesting in this context. Shallow internet putdowns aren't true feelings. Often they're a kind of side-expression of someone's bad mood, frustration with life, or whatever—feelings which are actually about something entirely different than (e.g.) AR or holographics or whatever the topic at hand is. Those feelings get displaced into internet swipes because the latter are cheap, risk-free, and bring a slight temporary relief. But they're not "true feelings". If they were, they'd be much more interesting reading. The GP comment actually included a great second paragraph saying something about what they'd really like to see, and that was interesting because it was rooted in genuine curiosity and enthusiasm. But there was no need to put down someone else's work for not being that.
  - pdntspa 3y ago
    Calling every curt response "dismissive" is throwing the baby out with the bathwater. The original comment personally resonated with me, and while the linked project is kinda neat I guess there is a growing contingent of us that see AR as an inadequate stopgap on the way to holography. My response would have been very much similar. But I also take issue with this because it sort of compels people to be wordy and force them to use awful gentrified business-bullshit speak where everything has to be couched as positive. There is value in being blunt and direct, and there is value in an economy of words. Just because someone may not be feeling bothered enough to couch their language in pleasantries, or they are incapable of formulating the words in a satisfactory manner, shouldn't mean that they also shouldn't speak at all. I get that some sorts of negativity "sprout up like weeds" but if we truly want an arena of thoughtful, critical discussion then perhaps we should give such comments more benefit of the doubt.
xwdv 3y ago
I actually was very excited to see what 3D images “floating” above my DS was supposed to be. Imagine my disappointment when I find out I’ve been clickbaited. Nothing is floating here, it’s just an AR app. “Meh” is exactly how I feel. Indifferent. Unmoved. Unexcited. I left quickly and spent an hour reading about the technology behind the Voxon display. True volumetric images floating before your very eyes.
- yboris 3y ago
  Perhaps this is an age thing, but I've been (following) around technology long enough to know what's likely / possible, and a leap into a fully-visible hologram on a handheld device isn't likely in the coming few years (at the very least we'd see some precursors to it first). It's ok to feel indifferent, and you may even express that in person if someone is talking directly to you, but adding "meh" in a message you're choosing to write when no one asked you seems not nice to me. I'm not even insisting people don't do it -- I'm recommending one reflects more deeply before one speaks; it might seem hard at first, but with practice it will likely filter out unpleasant-to-others gut reactions you may used to have.

by yboris 3y ago

pdntspa 3y ago

Let people express their true feelings. We shouldn't be blowing smoke up each other's asses. Criticism is a fact of life and we can't culture our way out of it. There is "nice" and there is honest. And neither are kind (though honesty is much more likely to be kind)

dagmx 3y ago
“Meh” isn’t critique let alone criticism. It’s dismissal. It’s not even relevant to this project because what are they expecting them to do? Make bespoke hardware for it? It’s a link to a GitHub page It’s like if someone posted a new Tesla and someone replied with “Meh, should have been a Jetpack”. It’s just completely irrelevant if one were to take as criticism/critique. It’s pure dismissal
- pdntspa 3y ago
  ...which is a criticism. "It doesn't excite me"
  - dagmx 3y ago
    which is a dismissal. It adds nothing of value, provides no actionable task, doesn’t do anything beyond saying “I want something else” which is like “okay but that’s not within the realm of what this singular person can do so is irrelevant”
    - pdntspa 3y ago
      This is semantics. If I present something and the response is "meh" then that is important information to me. Let people express themselves without policing it. Attitudes like yours create echo chambers of sycophants. I personally hate an environment where the only feedback allowed is positive-to-neutral. Negative things, like dismissal that you seem to hate so much for some reason, are feedback too. Welcome to the thunderdome.
      - dagmx 3y ago
        You’re missing the point. Nobody is saying don’t critique it. Critique is constructive. Meh is dismissive Be as brutally critical as needed but criticism should be something of value. “Meh” is the equivalent to “neat”. It adds nothing, but unlike neat, it takes away pride. Also if we’re taking the meta discussion, then you’re doing the same thing you’re saying not to do. People are just giving feedback , but unlike the original comment it’s constructive feedback.
        xwdv 3y ago
        I don’t get it. “Nice job”, “Meh”, and “This sucks.” are all dismissals, but they are also feedback, which is just as important as long form critique. And I didn’t merely say “Meh”, I followed up with some more text and added a new dimension to the discussion.
    - coding123 3y ago
      Not to mention that Dang often tells people to not be dismissive. If you don't like it, click back and see something else. Or do something more important like prepare for standup.
  - Kerb_ 3y ago
    [flagged]
dang 3y ago
Yes but there's a difference between just putting down other people's work and making substantive criticisms that the creator(s), as well as us readers, can learn from. That's why the HN guidelines say: "Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something." - https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html We definitely want good critical comments here, so in that sense you're correct—but we don't want shallow internet putdowns. Those grow like weeds, choking out interesting conversation and eventually degrading the entire ecosystem. Your phrase "express their true feelings" is interesting in this context. Shallow internet putdowns aren't true feelings. Often they're a kind of side-expression of someone's bad mood, frustration with life, or whatever—feelings which are actually about something entirely different than (e.g.) AR or holographics or whatever the topic at hand is. Those feelings get displaced into internet swipes because the latter are cheap, risk-free, and bring a slight temporary relief. But they're not "true feelings". If they were, they'd be much more interesting reading. The GP comment actually included a great second paragraph saying something about what they'd really like to see, and that was interesting because it was rooted in genuine curiosity and enthusiasm. But there was no need to put down someone else's work for not being that.
- pdntspa 3y ago
  Calling every curt response "dismissive" is throwing the baby out with the bathwater. The original comment personally resonated with me, and while the linked project is kinda neat I guess there is a growing contingent of us that see AR as an inadequate stopgap on the way to holography. My response would have been very much similar. But I also take issue with this because it sort of compels people to be wordy and force them to use awful gentrified business-bullshit speak where everything has to be couched as positive. There is value in being blunt and direct, and there is value in an economy of words. Just because someone may not be feeling bothered enough to couch their language in pleasantries, or they are incapable of formulating the words in a satisfactory manner, shouldn't mean that they also shouldn't speak at all. I get that some sorts of negativity "sprout up like weeds" but if we truly want an arena of thoughtful, critical discussion then perhaps we should give such comments more benefit of the doubt.

xwdv 3y ago

I actually was very excited to see what 3D images “floating” above my DS was supposed to be. Imagine my disappointment when I find out I’ve been clickbaited. Nothing is floating here, it’s just an AR app. “Meh” is exactly how I feel. Indifferent. Unmoved. Unexcited. I left quickly and spent an hour reading about the technology behind the Voxon display. True volumetric images floating before your very eyes.

yboris 3y ago
Perhaps this is an age thing, but I've been (following) around technology long enough to know what's likely / possible, and a leap into a fully-visible hologram on a handheld device isn't likely in the coming few years (at the very least we'd see some precursors to it first). It's ok to feel indifferent, and you may even express that in person if someone is talking directly to you, but adding "meh" in a message you're choosing to write when no one asked you seems not nice to me. I'm not even insisting people don't do it -- I'm recommending one reflects more deeply before one speaks; it might seem hard at first, but with practice it will likely filter out unpleasant-to-others gut reactions you may used to have.