5 ms·

.... maybe .... It depends on the purpose of the test. For example, a trillion dollar question is still long covid. Very significant numbers of people are on

by blagie 3y ago

.... maybe .... It depends on the purpose of the test. For example, a trillion dollar question is still long covid. Very significant numbers of people are on disability right now. About 10% of Americans have some form of long covid, and >1% are unable to work due to long covid (or >2% of the workforce). Long covid comes up even with mild and asymptomatic cases, and seems to have a strong autoimmune component. If you're trying to understand where those sorts of symptoms came from, it's good to know whether or not you had covid before they started. Given that we don't understand what's going on here medically at all, it's not immediately useful, but it may be useful to know as treatments come up. A big part of the reason why I test is simply to know. There are many other potential purposes one might have for testing too. For example, studies might want to track prevalence of covid in populations. It's good to know, methodologically, what they're tracking.

euix 3y ago
Can long covid be considered post-viral fatigue? I remember being knocked out with Mononucleosis years ago and being tired out for over a month afterwards. Or is long Covid something entirely different?
- jnovek 3y ago
  A cursory google suggests that post-viral fatigue from COVID is expected to last a few weeks. Long COVID can last months; I know at least one person who still has long COVID symptoms from an infection that occurred in April 2020.
  - zoklet-enjoyer 3y ago
    Have they tried paxlovid?
    - blagie 3y ago
      I'd be very surprised if it helped. There's pretty good evidence that long covid isn't caused by persistent virus. My own speculation is that it's autoimmune, simple due to having it seen resolved when people were vaccinated. However, "anecdote" is not the plural of "data," and it just as well be unrelated. There are wonky changes to organs during covid, which many doctors speculate are the root cause. In either case, I'm unaware of any mainstream theories where paxlovid would be likely to help.
      - zanfr 3y ago
        long covid is a viral persistence in some tissue
        blagie 3y ago
        Why do you believe that?
        zoklet-enjoyer 3y ago
        https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10159620/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10159620/
        blagie 3y ago
        Thank you! Footnote: That's a 180 turn-around from state-of-the-art science a year or so ago. At the time, we thought there were individuals where it persisted (evidence in immunocompromised), but nothing like this.
        blagie 3y ago
        Edit: Additional thank you. That's a fascinating article and really well-written. I'm learning /a lot/ from it.
  - blagie 3y ago
    Long covid is generally defined as >4 weeks. There are subdefinitions for different lengths. However, a lot of long covid may be a form a post-viral fatigue. That doesn't discount it's importance, though. It's a lot more common than with a cold or flu. Anecdotally, for people I know, it would take six weeks to half a year to resolve.
- ben_w 3y ago
  Last I heard — massive caveats that was a while ago, and I'm not medically trained so I don't have a useful anti-BS filter for anything medical — is that it does seem to be a form of post viral fatigue/ME/CFS.
- bamfly 3y ago
  It is my wholly-uninformed WAG hypothesis that lots of sorts of infections cause long-term changes and problems—we just don't usually make the connection between the illness and the later trouble. Like, if I had to bet money on it, I'd wager that "long flu" and even "long cold" are real things that happen at least sometimes, but just haven't gotten much attention (and, to be fair, they might also be less common, or less-commonly-as-severe, if they are real).
  - spondylosaurus 3y ago
    There's a link between EBV and multiple sclerosis! Also, n=1, but I had a bout of bacterial laryngitis a few weeks ago (was briefly intubated for elective surgery—apparently this is a common side effect) and I'm still feeling a little breathless/cough-y despite having hacked up every last bit of phlegm and finished a full course of antibiotics. Doesn't seem shocking that my lungs would take a bit to recover, even if the bacteria in question have already cleared out.
usednet 3y ago
I think its highly likely long COVID simply does not exist, at least in the way we currently imagine it. The body of evidence that long COVID has a biological/chemical/physical basis is very unconvincing. The demographics of the people who get long COVID is the most telling evidence that its more of a syndrome than an actual disease. Over 20% (!) of bisexual people have/had long COVID. Long COVID sufferers are more likely to have conditions like POTS, where a significant number of patients are very likely just exaggerating physiological symptoms. We should stop elevating these "diseases" into the public consciousness before there is scientific evidence that they actually exist. https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M21-4905 https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M21-4905 https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/replication-attempt-bisexuality-and https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/replication-attempt-bi... https://www.piratewires.com/p/bisexuals-long-covid https://www.piratewires.com/p/bisexuals-long-covid
- NotYourLawyer 3y ago
  > Over 20% (!) of bisexual people have/had long COVID. That’s bizarre. I’m not sure what would cause those numbers regardless of whether long covid is real.
  - zanfr 3y ago
    whats causing it the poster's own biases
    - usednet 3y ago
      Take a look at the CDC's offical long COVID data and do your own calculations. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/covid19/pulse/long-covid.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/covid19/pulse/long-covid.htm
      - zanfr 3y ago
        because we all know the CDC has been a reliable source of information with them constantly changing to stats to whatever they liked to see... suuure
zanfr 3y ago
the reason to keep testing even if asymptomatic/mildly symptomatic is to have a track record for further physical evaluation, legal and insurance claims (they are coming, insurers are already shitting themselves)

by blagie 3y ago

euix 3y ago

Can long covid be considered post-viral fatigue? I remember being knocked out with Mononucleosis years ago and being tired out for over a month afterwards. Or is long Covid something entirely different?

jnovek 3y ago
A cursory google suggests that post-viral fatigue from COVID is expected to last a few weeks. Long COVID can last months; I know at least one person who still has long COVID symptoms from an infection that occurred in April 2020.
- zoklet-enjoyer 3y ago
  Have they tried paxlovid?
  - blagie 3y ago
    I'd be very surprised if it helped. There's pretty good evidence that long covid isn't caused by persistent virus. My own speculation is that it's autoimmune, simple due to having it seen resolved when people were vaccinated. However, "anecdote" is not the plural of "data," and it just as well be unrelated. There are wonky changes to organs during covid, which many doctors speculate are the root cause. In either case, I'm unaware of any mainstream theories where paxlovid would be likely to help.
    - zanfr 3y ago
      long covid is a viral persistence in some tissue
      - blagie 3y ago
        Why do you believe that?
        zoklet-enjoyer 3y ago
        https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10159620/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10159620/
        blagie 3y ago
        Thank you! Footnote: That's a 180 turn-around from state-of-the-art science a year or so ago. At the time, we thought there were individuals where it persisted (evidence in immunocompromised), but nothing like this.
        blagie 3y ago
        Edit: Additional thank you. That's a fascinating article and really well-written. I'm learning /a lot/ from it.
- blagie 3y ago
  Long covid is generally defined as >4 weeks. There are subdefinitions for different lengths. However, a lot of long covid may be a form a post-viral fatigue. That doesn't discount it's importance, though. It's a lot more common than with a cold or flu. Anecdotally, for people I know, it would take six weeks to half a year to resolve.
ben_w 3y ago
Last I heard — massive caveats that was a while ago, and I'm not medically trained so I don't have a useful anti-BS filter for anything medical — is that it does seem to be a form of post viral fatigue/ME/CFS.
bamfly 3y ago
It is my wholly-uninformed WAG hypothesis that lots of sorts of infections cause long-term changes and problems—we just don't usually make the connection between the illness and the later trouble. Like, if I had to bet money on it, I'd wager that "long flu" and even "long cold" are real things that happen at least sometimes, but just haven't gotten much attention (and, to be fair, they might also be less common, or less-commonly-as-severe, if they are real).
- spondylosaurus 3y ago
  There's a link between EBV and multiple sclerosis! Also, n=1, but I had a bout of bacterial laryngitis a few weeks ago (was briefly intubated for elective surgery—apparently this is a common side effect) and I'm still feeling a little breathless/cough-y despite having hacked up every last bit of phlegm and finished a full course of antibiotics. Doesn't seem shocking that my lungs would take a bit to recover, even if the bacteria in question have already cleared out.

usednet 3y ago

I think its highly likely long COVID simply does not exist, at least in the way we currently imagine it. The body of evidence that long COVID has a biological/chemical/physical basis is very unconvincing. The demographics of the people who get long COVID is the most telling evidence that its more of a syndrome than an actual disease. Over 20% (!) of bisexual people have/had long COVID. Long COVID sufferers are more likely to have conditions like POTS, where a significant number of patients are very likely just exaggerating physiological symptoms. We should stop elevating these "diseases" into the public consciousness before there is scientific evidence that they actually exist. https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M21-4905 https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M21-4905 https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/replication-attempt-bisexuality-and https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/replication-attempt-bi... https://www.piratewires.com/p/bisexuals-long-covid https://www.piratewires.com/p/bisexuals-long-covid

NotYourLawyer 3y ago
> Over 20% (!) of bisexual people have/had long COVID. That’s bizarre. I’m not sure what would cause those numbers regardless of whether long covid is real.
- zanfr 3y ago
  whats causing it the poster's own biases
  - usednet 3y ago
    Take a look at the CDC's offical long COVID data and do your own calculations. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/covid19/pulse/long-covid.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/covid19/pulse/long-covid.htm
    - zanfr 3y ago
      because we all know the CDC has been a reliable source of information with them constantly changing to stats to whatever they liked to see... suuure

zanfr 3y ago

the reason to keep testing even if asymptomatic/mildly symptomatic is to have a track record for further physical evaluation, legal and insurance claims (they are coming, insurers are already shitting themselves)