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This is another reason why it should be the government's obligation to provide websites to prepare and file taxes. Tax softwares should work to solve complex sc

This is another reason why it should be the government's obligation to provide websites to prepare and file taxes. Tax softwares should work to solve complex scenarios or whatever the need be for the specialized requirement only via API. And tax softwares should be approved after an audit by the government.

WentFullRetard 3y ago
[dead]
paxys 3y ago
Or how about - send me a tax bill at the end of the year and let me contest/adjust it if I want. The IRS knows the exact number the vast majority of people owe, but just chooses to keep it a secret.
- dfxm12 3y ago
  It's incorrect to frame it like it's the IRS' fault, when it's really the fault of companies like intuit or H&R Block and their congressional lobbying efforts, and of course the congress that keeps taking the money in exchange for continuing this system.
- cathalc 3y ago
  Not a US citizen so forgive me - but does the IRS not auto file tax returns for "regular" incomes - those managed fully by your employer? In my country, it's automatically done for those with "regular" incomes, even end of year tax back is as simple as logging on to Revenue and clicking a button. You're only on your own if you're self employed, generate non-standard income etc (like shares, which I imagine most people on HN are). In those cases, the government does _not_ know how much you earn until your audited. And audits are neither automated nor simple, a dedicated auditor is tasked with identifying all your sources of income and verifying everything. Point being it's manual.
  - jeffbee 3y ago
    The IRS has a thing called "free file" for simple tax situations below an income threshold, but Americans in several populous states would still need to separately prepare their state income tax filings.
    - kube-system 3y ago
      Americans in most states would need to prepare their state income tax. Americans in several states would also need to prepare their local income tax forms. Personally, I am filing income tax returns to four jurisdictions this year. One federal, two states, and one municipality.
  - evancox100 3y ago
    The tax prep software companies (Intuit, H&R Block, etc.) have successfully lobbied to make such a system illegal and keep the system as complicated as possible. There has been some movement to make this simpler but I don’t have much hope it will actually bring about meaningful change. Free file forms is a joke and hardly better than filling out PDFs (or paper) manually.
    - cathalc 3y ago
      That's interesting.. I wonder if we have the same roadblocks here (Ireland/EU), or if there's just zero innovation in the area. Probably both.
  - paxys 3y ago
    The most the government does is provide their own tax filing software for free if you meet a certain income threshold, but (1) you still have to do all the work yourself (collect forms, enter data, figure out what you owe) and (2) there is an added penalty if you get something wrong. So most choose to use paid tax preparation services regardless.
  - pigrew 3y ago
    The IRS does not auto-fill a tax return for you. Companies DO submit your income to the IRS. However, citizens are required to separately submit their incomes on tax returns. Taxes on (nearly all) stock income is also reported to the IRS. The IRS cross-checks these values between the company-reported and the earner-reported submissions. The argument is that if the system auto-filled tax returns, people wouldn't report income that the system hadn't auto-filled, so the government would lose money. All federal electronic filing is done through private companies. Even the IRS's website for "free fillable forms" (which appears as if it were run by the IRS) is actually run by a private company. The only way to not submit taxes through a private company is to submit them on paper.
- superhumanuser 3y ago
  I don't think the IRS knows all of your deductions. We could get rid of all this by replacing federal income tax with a federal sales tax.
  - paxys 3y ago
    87.6% of Americans took the standard deduction in 2019 and 87.3% in 2020. There's zero reason why all their tax filings could not be fully automated.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - superhumanuser 3y ago
      That's a great point.
  - tired-turtle 3y ago
    A simpler system can “solve” a problem, but it often disregards complexity instead of handling it. A federal sales tax is such an example. It simplifies the calculation of tax burden (solves the problem) by implementing a regressive tax code and placing an undue burden on lower income residents.
  - tpxl 3y ago
    Tax deductions for single employed people, married couples and married couples with children, without capital gains, are stupid simple and also cover the majority of the population.
dfxm12 3y ago
The government really should just send a bill/check. Tax websites/software only exist in the first place because of the extraordinary lobbying effort of tax prep firms.
jeffbee 3y ago
The IRS's "free file" landing page uses Google Analytics and New Relic in a way that sends the URL and page title to both parties, the exact mistake that H&R Block is accused of here.
- edgyquant 3y ago
  I can understand analytics, I don’t like it but I can understand, however the government site does not use Meta which is inexcusable as afaik they don’t have a pure website analytics platform as that isn’t their business.
- _jal 3y ago
  Really? The IRS is encoding, specific filing details like number of dependents in a machine readable format and sending that to GA? I'd like to see some evidence.
TheIronMark 3y ago
The US government doesn't really have a great track record of doing this any better.

WentFullRetard 3y ago

[dead]

paxys 3y ago

Or how about - send me a tax bill at the end of the year and let me contest/adjust it if I want. The IRS knows the exact number the vast majority of people owe, but just chooses to keep it a secret.

dfxm12 3y ago
It's incorrect to frame it like it's the IRS' fault, when it's really the fault of companies like intuit or H&R Block and their congressional lobbying efforts, and of course the congress that keeps taking the money in exchange for continuing this system.
cathalc 3y ago
Not a US citizen so forgive me - but does the IRS not auto file tax returns for "regular" incomes - those managed fully by your employer? In my country, it's automatically done for those with "regular" incomes, even end of year tax back is as simple as logging on to Revenue and clicking a button. You're only on your own if you're self employed, generate non-standard income etc (like shares, which I imagine most people on HN are). In those cases, the government does _not_ know how much you earn until your audited. And audits are neither automated nor simple, a dedicated auditor is tasked with identifying all your sources of income and verifying everything. Point being it's manual.
- jeffbee 3y ago
  The IRS has a thing called "free file" for simple tax situations below an income threshold, but Americans in several populous states would still need to separately prepare their state income tax filings.
  - kube-system 3y ago
    Americans in most states would need to prepare their state income tax. Americans in several states would also need to prepare their local income tax forms. Personally, I am filing income tax returns to four jurisdictions this year. One federal, two states, and one municipality.
- evancox100 3y ago
  The tax prep software companies (Intuit, H&R Block, etc.) have successfully lobbied to make such a system illegal and keep the system as complicated as possible. There has been some movement to make this simpler but I don’t have much hope it will actually bring about meaningful change. Free file forms is a joke and hardly better than filling out PDFs (or paper) manually.
  - cathalc 3y ago
    That's interesting.. I wonder if we have the same roadblocks here (Ireland/EU), or if there's just zero innovation in the area. Probably both.
- paxys 3y ago
  The most the government does is provide their own tax filing software for free if you meet a certain income threshold, but (1) you still have to do all the work yourself (collect forms, enter data, figure out what you owe) and (2) there is an added penalty if you get something wrong. So most choose to use paid tax preparation services regardless.
- pigrew 3y ago
  The IRS does not auto-fill a tax return for you. Companies DO submit your income to the IRS. However, citizens are required to separately submit their incomes on tax returns. Taxes on (nearly all) stock income is also reported to the IRS. The IRS cross-checks these values between the company-reported and the earner-reported submissions. The argument is that if the system auto-filled tax returns, people wouldn't report income that the system hadn't auto-filled, so the government would lose money. All federal electronic filing is done through private companies. Even the IRS's website for "free fillable forms" (which appears as if it were run by the IRS) is actually run by a private company. The only way to not submit taxes through a private company is to submit them on paper.
superhumanuser 3y ago
I don't think the IRS knows all of your deductions. We could get rid of all this by replacing federal income tax with a federal sales tax.
- paxys 3y ago
  87.6% of Americans took the standard deduction in 2019 and 87.3% in 2020. There's zero reason why all their tax filings could not be fully automated.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - superhumanuser 3y ago
    That's a great point.
- tired-turtle 3y ago
  A simpler system can “solve” a problem, but it often disregards complexity instead of handling it. A federal sales tax is such an example. It simplifies the calculation of tax burden (solves the problem) by implementing a regressive tax code and placing an undue burden on lower income residents.
- tpxl 3y ago
  Tax deductions for single employed people, married couples and married couples with children, without capital gains, are stupid simple and also cover the majority of the population.

dfxm12 3y ago

The government really should just send a bill/check. Tax websites/software only exist in the first place because of the extraordinary lobbying effort of tax prep firms.

jeffbee 3y ago

The IRS's "free file" landing page uses Google Analytics and New Relic in a way that sends the URL and page title to both parties, the exact mistake that H&R Block is accused of here.

edgyquant 3y ago
I can understand analytics, I don’t like it but I can understand, however the government site does not use Meta which is inexcusable as afaik they don’t have a pure website analytics platform as that isn’t their business.
_jal 3y ago
Really? The IRS is encoding, specific filing details like number of dependents in a machine readable format and sending that to GA? I'd like to see some evidence.

TheIronMark 3y ago

The US government doesn't really have a great track record of doing this any better.