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Without resorting to some what-aboutism, in America both sides are guilty of it. Reminds of the pitch from celebrities days before 2020 election for battlegroun

Without resorting to some what-aboutism, in America both sides are guilty of it. Reminds of the pitch from celebrities days before 2020 election for battleground states. Seriously though, I never understood this right vs left wing fight in US. It baffles me how common problems such as affordability crisis in a lot of big north easter and west coast cities (where most jobs are concentrated) and ballooning cost of healthcare and education are almost never at the spotlight. It’s as if it’s designed this way to keep the public consumed in these fights that would almost never going to improve the quality of their lives.

hotpotamus 3y ago
Is it even possible for one side to be worse than the other? Or is it like some kind of natural law that scams are evenly distributed?
- krapp 3y ago
  Of course it's possible. The premise that all sides are equally and perfectly corrupt and that therefore pointing out any specific flaw in any side is merely hypocrisy or partisanship is empty-headed cynicism. "Whataboutism" is a cultural cancer that short-circuits critical thinking.
- tivert 3y ago
  > Is it even possible for one side to be worse than the other? It is. > Or is it like some kind of natural law that scams are evenly distributed? But it's also close to a natural law that it's practically impossible to have an even-handed comparison, because the incentives to be biased to one side or the are too hard to resist. That bias often manifests itself as selective attention (e.g. invest time to uncover and report embarrassing true facts about one side, but invest much less time doing that to the other side). Other times it manifests as selective presentation (e.g. when side A does it, it's presented as a massive scandal; but when site B does it, it's presented as much less of a problem).
lesuorac 3y ago
Did you even read the article? It's literally about ads that make false claims. "But there was no such dispute. Winfrey’s quote was fake, and her name and likeness were used without permission. The product, a low-dose, cannabis-derived gummy supplement, does not treat dementia, let alone reverse it."
- bettercallsalad 3y ago
  You are missing my point. Who are finding these “ pro publica studies” and who benefits? How does your average person in HN who is prone to have issues from student loan debt, rising healthcare costs, or cost of living going to benefit from these?
  - lesuorac 3y ago
    Are you also going to make the claim that nobody is buying those gummies? Definitely the people being tricked into buying gummies would benefit from knowing they don't work and that they shouldn't spend money on them would benefit. Not every post needs to be solving world cancer. Plus the point of HN is entertainment.
    - bettercallsalad 3y ago
      I don’t know but vast majority of people I know are worried about COBRA payment post layoff or how to put together mortgage payment after layoff or if you are not so lucky how to find affordable childcare while both parent working while managing down payment or qualifying for mortgage with 6% interest rate etc. They aren’t worried about some right wing website trying to getcha. Maybe my social circumstances are different but that’s just from anecdotal experience. I don’t know about propublica but Media tends to underestimate how flimsy the thread where the balance is hanging for the social order while being busy covering these right vs left bullshit. As recent riots in France and other places show, it’s rather thin.
  - WarOnPrivacy 3y ago
    > Who are finding these “ pro publica studies” and who benefits? How does your average person in HN who is prone to have issues from student loan debt, rising healthcare costs, or cost of living going to benefit from these? It's a worthwhile question and I would answer this way. Where most national news desks all run the same 7 headlines, ProPublica tends to bring more new topics to the table. This particular topic isn't novel; just less covered. I have a positive example of PP reporting; you might appreciate it. An early PP story reported on how campaign ads heavily fund news orgs covering elections. It seems a significant conflict of interest and it's gotten little discussion before or since. When news orgs were first forced to be transparent about campaign ad buys, most outlets released the data in pdf images to hamper tracking of ad buy dollars. PP setup a site to crowdsource (I was one) converting those PDFs to data. The data got converted and the ad buys got released as intended.
_gfwu 3y ago
The democrat party isn't really "left wing"
- frob 3y ago
  The "democrat party" just isn't. The name of the party is the Democratic Party. For someone who seems to be attacking it from the left, you should know that you're using a phrase popularized by Rush Limbaugh and Newt Gingrich.
  - krapp 3y ago
    They aren't wrong, though. The Democratic Party isn't really leftist so much as centrist to center-right. I think the last real "leftist" administration we had was the Carter administration, and he's the most reviled President in American history (or at least in the top three with Trump and Nixon.) Americans just don't have the stomach for true leftism. Biden has made some good attempts at rebuilding government infrastructure and restoring environmental policy and gets an E for effort at student loan debt, but he's still pro cop, pro military, supports business over labor, and buys into the myth of American exceptionalism too much to be considered "leftist." Even AOC seems like more smoke than fire lately.
    - frob 3y ago
      I'm not arguing with you there at all
  - readthenotes1 3y ago
    It is an easy enough mistake to make for someone not invested in political intrigue: When the D behind a politician's name is expanded is usually expanded as Democrat, not as Democratic.
  - mahathu 3y ago
    Thanks for the heads up, I'm not a native speaker and typed that comment on a rush
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

hotpotamus 3y ago

Is it even possible for one side to be worse than the other? Or is it like some kind of natural law that scams are evenly distributed?

krapp 3y ago
Of course it's possible. The premise that all sides are equally and perfectly corrupt and that therefore pointing out any specific flaw in any side is merely hypocrisy or partisanship is empty-headed cynicism. "Whataboutism" is a cultural cancer that short-circuits critical thinking.
tivert 3y ago
> Is it even possible for one side to be worse than the other? It is. > Or is it like some kind of natural law that scams are evenly distributed? But it's also close to a natural law that it's practically impossible to have an even-handed comparison, because the incentives to be biased to one side or the are too hard to resist. That bias often manifests itself as selective attention (e.g. invest time to uncover and report embarrassing true facts about one side, but invest much less time doing that to the other side). Other times it manifests as selective presentation (e.g. when side A does it, it's presented as a massive scandal; but when site B does it, it's presented as much less of a problem).

lesuorac 3y ago

Did you even read the article? It's literally about ads that make false claims. "But there was no such dispute. Winfrey’s quote was fake, and her name and likeness were used without permission. The product, a low-dose, cannabis-derived gummy supplement, does not treat dementia, let alone reverse it."

bettercallsalad 3y ago
You are missing my point. Who are finding these “ pro publica studies” and who benefits? How does your average person in HN who is prone to have issues from student loan debt, rising healthcare costs, or cost of living going to benefit from these?
- lesuorac 3y ago
  Are you also going to make the claim that nobody is buying those gummies? Definitely the people being tricked into buying gummies would benefit from knowing they don't work and that they shouldn't spend money on them would benefit. Not every post needs to be solving world cancer. Plus the point of HN is entertainment.
  - bettercallsalad 3y ago
    I don’t know but vast majority of people I know are worried about COBRA payment post layoff or how to put together mortgage payment after layoff or if you are not so lucky how to find affordable childcare while both parent working while managing down payment or qualifying for mortgage with 6% interest rate etc. They aren’t worried about some right wing website trying to getcha. Maybe my social circumstances are different but that’s just from anecdotal experience. I don’t know about propublica but Media tends to underestimate how flimsy the thread where the balance is hanging for the social order while being busy covering these right vs left bullshit. As recent riots in France and other places show, it’s rather thin.
- WarOnPrivacy 3y ago
  > Who are finding these “ pro publica studies” and who benefits? How does your average person in HN who is prone to have issues from student loan debt, rising healthcare costs, or cost of living going to benefit from these? It's a worthwhile question and I would answer this way. Where most national news desks all run the same 7 headlines, ProPublica tends to bring more new topics to the table. This particular topic isn't novel; just less covered. I have a positive example of PP reporting; you might appreciate it. An early PP story reported on how campaign ads heavily fund news orgs covering elections. It seems a significant conflict of interest and it's gotten little discussion before or since. When news orgs were first forced to be transparent about campaign ad buys, most outlets released the data in pdf images to hamper tracking of ad buy dollars. PP setup a site to crowdsource (I was one) converting those PDFs to data. The data got converted and the ad buys got released as intended.

_gfwu 3y ago

The democrat party isn't really "left wing"

frob 3y ago
The "democrat party" just isn't. The name of the party is the Democratic Party. For someone who seems to be attacking it from the left, you should know that you're using a phrase popularized by Rush Limbaugh and Newt Gingrich.
- krapp 3y ago
  They aren't wrong, though. The Democratic Party isn't really leftist so much as centrist to center-right. I think the last real "leftist" administration we had was the Carter administration, and he's the most reviled President in American history (or at least in the top three with Trump and Nixon.) Americans just don't have the stomach for true leftism. Biden has made some good attempts at rebuilding government infrastructure and restoring environmental policy and gets an E for effort at student loan debt, but he's still pro cop, pro military, supports business over labor, and buys into the myth of American exceptionalism too much to be considered "leftist." Even AOC seems like more smoke than fire lately.
  - frob 3y ago
    I'm not arguing with you there at all
- readthenotes1 3y ago
  It is an easy enough mistake to make for someone not invested in political intrigue: When the D behind a politician's name is expanded is usually expanded as Democrat, not as Democratic.
- mahathu 3y ago
  Thanks for the heads up, I'm not a native speaker and typed that comment on a rush

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]