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> Ook de officiële VanMoof-app, waarmee eigenaren hun fiets van het slot kunnen halen, is niet voor alle klanten bereikbaar.¹ (The official VanMoof app, which

> Ook de officiële VanMoof-app, waarmee eigenaren hun fiets van het slot kunnen halen, is niet voor alle klanten bereikbaar.¹ (The official VanMoof app, which bicycle owners use to unlock their bicycle, is not available to all customers either.) Yet another reminder that you'll never actually own something which depends on an app or the company behind it existing. For context: VanMoof bicycles are pretty much on the premium side of the spectrum. 1: https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2023/07/12/uitstel-van-betaling-voor-fietsenmerk-vanmoof-a4169615 https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2023/07/12/uitstel-van-betaling-vo...

28304283409234 3y ago
https://github.com/grossartig/vanmoof-encryption-key-exporter https://github.com/grossartig/vanmoof-encryption-key-exporte... "With this tool, we want to make sure everyone can use their VanMoof even after these servers become unreachable - preventing e-waste."
- Freak_NL 3y ago
  Good of someone to step in and provide that. It shouldn't take a third party though.
  - hef19898 3y ago
    Like all self-mobile equipment, it should be self-contained, air gapped from the internet and not require a web connection to work. Doing that, even OTA updates become unnecessary. Goesbfor cars, and even more so for bicycles, e- or otherwise... What's next, connect with Googpe / Facebook to use the bathroom? Good ridance for VanMoof, if everything you have is hippster marketing, that's what will ultimately happen.
    - ilyt 3y ago
      We need more local IoT networks in general. There should never be a case for vast majority of devices to contact the internet. Just MQTT to local gateway and do logic there. And maybe some generalized service for keeping firmware updates.
      - hef19898 3y ago
        I'll go even further: we do need a lot less IoT stuff, a lot as in none at all if possible. And if something isn't connected to the internet, and working just fine within spec, you don't even need to update the firmware.
        ilyt 3y ago
        Proliferation of "smart" is definitely also a problem, but I think bigger one is plain lack of standards for most common use cases so if any of the platforms is abandoned, tough luck, landfill. > And if something isn't connected to the internet, and working just fine within spec, you don't even need to update the firmware. Yes but you always want to have option open, bugs happen
yourusername 3y ago
>For context: VanMoof bicycles are pretty much on the premium side of the spectrum. This is the perception many people have but they're actually a bit cheaper than the average ebike, starting at €2200 when you would expect to pay about €2500 for most ebikes.
- Freak_NL 3y ago
  (€ works on HackerNews, HTML escapes don't.)
- onehp 3y ago
  Prices have dropped quite considerably recently. You can now pick up an e-bike as cheaply as €500. Once you get out of the "budget" range I'd expect to be paying more like €1500 for an average one.
  - yourusername 3y ago
    Where can i pick up these €500 ebikes? I've never seen one under €900 and that is with absolute garbage parts. Once you have some decent parts on there they are quickly 2000+.
    - dreamcompiler 3y ago
      The Jetson Haze is $549 at Costco. I didn't buy one because it's too small for me to ride comfortably, and the battery is too small. Plus as an all-Chinese bike I'd want to read some long-term reliability reports before buying.
    - onehp 3y ago
      The cheapest here is around €500 (depending on exchange rates), with plenty under €1500. https://electroheads.com/collections/all-electric-bikes?filter.v.price.gte=&filter.v.price.lte=&sort_by=price-ascending https://electroheads.com/collections/all-electric-bikes?filt...
  - dreamcompiler 3y ago
    All the reasonably good ebikes I've checked recently are now several hundred dollars more expensive than a year ago. You can watch a year-old review on Youtube which mentions prices, then go to the company's website to see how the prices have increased.
rightbyte 3y ago
Seems that you need to connect to the servers to receive the key so if the lusers haven't done that yet, it is too late? We really need some electronic waste law for Internet of Shit devices that forces offline functionality or self hosted functionality. Edit: There seem to be a backup unlock method with the bell, but I guess it is not very convenient compared to the app or a good old key.
hughesjj 3y ago
It's insane how common they are in Seattle. They look super sleek but their specs aren't actually all that good. I ended up going with juiced instead for less than half the price because it's pretty much all easily maintainable parts you can source yourself if need be. Lectric is great for that too.
- mcv 3y ago
  I also occasionally encounter one in Amsterdam (most Amsterdammers wouldn't want to be caught dead on a VanMoof), and I find them confusing and annoying. They make weird, confusing sounds, have some sort of whistle instead of a bell, and the riders seem to think they always have right of way and always go faster than other bikes. Or maybe I interpret their behaviour more aggressively than with other bikes because of the weird sounds they produce. (I don't think they're actually more aggressive than other cyclists in Amsterdam. I mean, that's a very high bar. They might even be more polite. And yet, they seem to have acquired that reputation.)
  - em500 3y ago
    I think that reputation is undeserved, ard there's a bit of resentment at play. They're seen as toys for the wealthy, as mMost Amsterdammers probably ride a 3rd or 4th hand beater bike worth less than €100. But it seems that the resentment is nowadays more a directed at fat-bikes (Rad Powerbike lookalikes).
    - mcv 3y ago
      Ah, but we're proud of our ratty 4th hand beater bikes. People do some creative stuff with them sometimes, and certainly when I was a student, you didn't want to be seen on some shiny new bike fresh from the shop. > But it seems that the resentment is nowadays more a directed at fat-bikes (Rad Powerbike lookalikes). Weirdly, I don't actually mind them that much. They're awful of course, but I don't see them as replacements for bikes, but as replacements for scooters/mopeds. And those are a lot more awful. So I rather see people on a fat e-bike than on a dirty fume spewing scooter.
  - 3y ago
mcv 3y ago
> In Amsterdam staan boze klanten voor de deur omdat ze hun fiets niet kunnen ophalen die ze voor reparatie naar VanMoof hadden gebracht. (Angry customers can't pick up the bikes that they'd brought in for repair.) This is particularly nasty. Not only do they lose access to repairs and other services (like unlocking), some people have already lost their entire bike. If the company isn't already bankrupt, it'd be nice if they could at least finish the repairs that are in progress, and return all the bikes to the customers (I hesitate to call them "owners"). Of course that's a problem that can occur with any bankrupt repair service. The designed lock-in making customers dependent on a bankruptable company for everything from repairs to unlocking their bike, is more unique to this business model, but it should be a big warning against these lock-in driven business models that make customers too dependent on a single company. It's of course tempting to trust and believe that companies never go bankrupt, but they do.
- Freak_NL 3y ago
  That's just because the physical shop closed in the course of the bankruptcy proceedings, not because the bicycles were repossessed. If VanMoof does go tits-up, these bicycles will still belong to their owners. It sucks not to be able to get at them right now, but that will sort itself out.
  - fatfingerd 3y ago
    > that will sort itself out The court assigns an administrator who, if effective, will work with what there is.. The bikes many people get back may be worthless as many parts were apparently custom so there are no other shops to complete the unfinished repairs.
  - Cthulhu_ 3y ago
    I read they closed the shop for the safety of the employees, because they had angry customers demanding their bike / money back.
  - WeylandYutani 3y ago
    As I understand it only official van Moof dealerships have the tools and parts to fix these bikes so even if they get them back they're screwed.
deanc 3y ago
It also boils down to the hardware of the bike itself. Most of the parts are proprietary and I explicitly didn’t buy one for this reason.
rasz 3y ago
This is pretty common. In New Zealand you cant charge EVs if you happen to have Android Google account created while in US, app refuses to install. We bought a 5 bar Leaf [NewZeroland] https://youtu.be/4aBYJps_5ek?t=176 https://youtu.be/4aBYJps_5ek?t=176

28304283409234 3y ago

https://github.com/grossartig/vanmoof-encryption-key-exporter https://github.com/grossartig/vanmoof-encryption-key-exporte... "With this tool, we want to make sure everyone can use their VanMoof even after these servers become unreachable - preventing e-waste."

Freak_NL 3y ago
Good of someone to step in and provide that. It shouldn't take a third party though.
- hef19898 3y ago
  Like all self-mobile equipment, it should be self-contained, air gapped from the internet and not require a web connection to work. Doing that, even OTA updates become unnecessary. Goesbfor cars, and even more so for bicycles, e- or otherwise... What's next, connect with Googpe / Facebook to use the bathroom? Good ridance for VanMoof, if everything you have is hippster marketing, that's what will ultimately happen.
  - ilyt 3y ago
    We need more local IoT networks in general. There should never be a case for vast majority of devices to contact the internet. Just MQTT to local gateway and do logic there. And maybe some generalized service for keeping firmware updates.
    - hef19898 3y ago
      I'll go even further: we do need a lot less IoT stuff, a lot as in none at all if possible. And if something isn't connected to the internet, and working just fine within spec, you don't even need to update the firmware.
      - ilyt 3y ago
        Proliferation of "smart" is definitely also a problem, but I think bigger one is plain lack of standards for most common use cases so if any of the platforms is abandoned, tough luck, landfill. > And if something isn't connected to the internet, and working just fine within spec, you don't even need to update the firmware. Yes but you always want to have option open, bugs happen

yourusername 3y ago

>For context: VanMoof bicycles are pretty much on the premium side of the spectrum. This is the perception many people have but they're actually a bit cheaper than the average ebike, starting at €2200 when you would expect to pay about €2500 for most ebikes.

Freak_NL 3y ago
(€ works on HackerNews, HTML escapes don't.)
onehp 3y ago
Prices have dropped quite considerably recently. You can now pick up an e-bike as cheaply as €500. Once you get out of the "budget" range I'd expect to be paying more like €1500 for an average one.
- yourusername 3y ago
  Where can i pick up these €500 ebikes? I've never seen one under €900 and that is with absolute garbage parts. Once you have some decent parts on there they are quickly 2000+.
  - dreamcompiler 3y ago
    The Jetson Haze is $549 at Costco. I didn't buy one because it's too small for me to ride comfortably, and the battery is too small. Plus as an all-Chinese bike I'd want to read some long-term reliability reports before buying.
  - onehp 3y ago
    The cheapest here is around €500 (depending on exchange rates), with plenty under €1500. https://electroheads.com/collections/all-electric-bikes?filter.v.price.gte=&filter.v.price.lte=&sort_by=price-ascending https://electroheads.com/collections/all-electric-bikes?filt...
- dreamcompiler 3y ago
  All the reasonably good ebikes I've checked recently are now several hundred dollars more expensive than a year ago. You can watch a year-old review on Youtube which mentions prices, then go to the company's website to see how the prices have increased.

rightbyte 3y ago

Seems that you need to connect to the servers to receive the key so if the lusers haven't done that yet, it is too late? We really need some electronic waste law for Internet of Shit devices that forces offline functionality or self hosted functionality. Edit: There seem to be a backup unlock method with the bell, but I guess it is not very convenient compared to the app or a good old key.

hughesjj 3y ago

It's insane how common they are in Seattle. They look super sleek but their specs aren't actually all that good. I ended up going with juiced instead for less than half the price because it's pretty much all easily maintainable parts you can source yourself if need be. Lectric is great for that too.

mcv 3y ago
I also occasionally encounter one in Amsterdam (most Amsterdammers wouldn't want to be caught dead on a VanMoof), and I find them confusing and annoying. They make weird, confusing sounds, have some sort of whistle instead of a bell, and the riders seem to think they always have right of way and always go faster than other bikes. Or maybe I interpret their behaviour more aggressively than with other bikes because of the weird sounds they produce. (I don't think they're actually more aggressive than other cyclists in Amsterdam. I mean, that's a very high bar. They might even be more polite. And yet, they seem to have acquired that reputation.)
- em500 3y ago
  I think that reputation is undeserved, ard there's a bit of resentment at play. They're seen as toys for the wealthy, as mMost Amsterdammers probably ride a 3rd or 4th hand beater bike worth less than €100. But it seems that the resentment is nowadays more a directed at fat-bikes (Rad Powerbike lookalikes).
  - mcv 3y ago
    Ah, but we're proud of our ratty 4th hand beater bikes. People do some creative stuff with them sometimes, and certainly when I was a student, you didn't want to be seen on some shiny new bike fresh from the shop. > But it seems that the resentment is nowadays more a directed at fat-bikes (Rad Powerbike lookalikes). Weirdly, I don't actually mind them that much. They're awful of course, but I don't see them as replacements for bikes, but as replacements for scooters/mopeds. And those are a lot more awful. So I rather see people on a fat e-bike than on a dirty fume spewing scooter.
- 3y ago

mcv 3y ago

> In Amsterdam staan boze klanten voor de deur omdat ze hun fiets niet kunnen ophalen die ze voor reparatie naar VanMoof hadden gebracht. (Angry customers can't pick up the bikes that they'd brought in for repair.) This is particularly nasty. Not only do they lose access to repairs and other services (like unlocking), some people have already lost their entire bike. If the company isn't already bankrupt, it'd be nice if they could at least finish the repairs that are in progress, and return all the bikes to the customers (I hesitate to call them "owners"). Of course that's a problem that can occur with any bankrupt repair service. The designed lock-in making customers dependent on a bankruptable company for everything from repairs to unlocking their bike, is more unique to this business model, but it should be a big warning against these lock-in driven business models that make customers too dependent on a single company. It's of course tempting to trust and believe that companies never go bankrupt, but they do.

Freak_NL 3y ago
That's just because the physical shop closed in the course of the bankruptcy proceedings, not because the bicycles were repossessed. If VanMoof does go tits-up, these bicycles will still belong to their owners. It sucks not to be able to get at them right now, but that will sort itself out.
- fatfingerd 3y ago
  > that will sort itself out The court assigns an administrator who, if effective, will work with what there is.. The bikes many people get back may be worthless as many parts were apparently custom so there are no other shops to complete the unfinished repairs.
- Cthulhu_ 3y ago
  I read they closed the shop for the safety of the employees, because they had angry customers demanding their bike / money back.
- WeylandYutani 3y ago
  As I understand it only official van Moof dealerships have the tools and parts to fix these bikes so even if they get them back they're screwed.

deanc 3y ago

It also boils down to the hardware of the bike itself. Most of the parts are proprietary and I explicitly didn’t buy one for this reason.

rasz 3y ago

This is pretty common. In New Zealand you cant charge EVs if you happen to have Android Google account created while in US, app refuses to install. We bought a 5 bar Leaf [NewZeroland] https://youtu.be/4aBYJps_5ek?t=176 https://youtu.be/4aBYJps_5ek?t=176