6 ms·

Pay for a physical copy and only then pirate the ebook. Otherwise this attitude is incredibly entitled.

• marcus_holmes 3y ago
  No, because then: - I'm sending a message to publishers that physical books are in demand (not the case) - I have to deal with the physical book (giving it away to a charity shop is probably the solution, but it's still hassle) - It doesn't solve the problem - publishers still think everything is good. Only by depriving the publishers of revenue until they start respecting their customers can we solve this. And I think my attitude is a lot less entitled than the publisher's. If I pay for something, I should own it, not have it subject to the publisher's whims. The attitude that they can disrespect their customers and keep control of the book even after it has been purchased is more than entitled. It should be illegal.
  • nec4b 3y ago
    >> If I pay for something, I should own Do you believe then same thing when renting a car?
    • vonnieda 3y ago
      When you "buy" a Kindle book, for instance, you click "Buy It Now" not "Rent It Now". The implication is that you are buying it to own, not renting it. Not a good comparison to renting a car.
      • marcus_holmes 3y ago
        Also when renting a car, I pay a fraction of its retail cost. Charging me the whole cost as a clearly marked "sale" and then renting the item to me is what's going on here, and it has to stop.
      • nec4b 3y ago
        Do you buy or rent a subscription? I think it's pretty clear you are buying a license to view Kindle books and not buying the the book itself.
  • ludston 3y ago
    What about the author though? You didn't mention them at all.
    • ShadowBanThis01 3y ago
      "I would like to reward the authors" That doesn't count as a mention?
      • alwayslikethis 3y ago
        It would be great if authors accepted donations. Then pirates can choose to pay.
        • dirtyid 3y ago
          Wonder if that gets them in trouble with publishers. Maybe creator should have a newsletter (however low effort) with a donation link at the bottom.
        • Qwertious 3y ago
          Strictly speaking, there's nothing stopping anyone from making a website listing authors of books and how to pay them. And strictly speaking, there's nothing stopping pirate sites from taking said website and embedding the relevant author donation info next to a torrent/DL of the book they wrote. Publishers wouldn't be able to take down the list website, as it's perfectly legal to send authors money. Publishers wouldn't be able to take down the pirate sites either, because they've already been trying for decades and can't win the whack-a-mole.
          • moffkalast 3y ago
            Idk they're getting pretty good at the whack-a-mole thing, zlibrary is hanging on by a thread at this point.
          • marcus_holmes 3y ago
            Awesome idea. I may work on this.
  • schleck8 3y ago
    > If I pay for something, I should own it Yeah, hence the physical book. I agree with the other person that this is very morally questionable
    • deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    • grahamlee 3y ago
      Especially among a forum who mostly derive income by renting their “products” as “services” without letting people own their output.
  • ShadowBanThis01 3y ago
    " I'm sending a message to publishers that physical books are in demand (not the case)" Bullshit. While I agree with your point of view otherwise, this attitude is indefensible. To validate your "piracy," you have the simple option of paying for the physical book in order to provide the author at least a pittance. But your objection to that is that you might imply demand for physical books? Are you fucking kidding? Supporting physical books is A PUBLIC SERVICE. Because the fact is that many people DO prefer physical books, for the very reasons that you're railing against. They can't be taken away. If people don't demand them, they will disappear and we'll all be subject to yet another rental scam. That includes YOU. WTF dude. You lost a lot of us right there, and need to re-think your value system.
    • marcus_holmes 3y ago
      I disagree. Physical books are not required any more - they were great when we didn't have e-readers, but now they're obsolete and we can move on. I'm fine with my values, they make sense to me and I believe if everyone followed the same values we'd end up with a better world.
      • iamacyborg 3y ago
        I’d hate to live in a world without physical books.
      • rchaud 3y ago
        The only time I wanted physical books obsolete was in college, because I hated carrying 10lb of textbooks in my bag. I've had a full bookshelf for a decade since then and can't imagine a world where I have thumb through a stupid Kindle menu to see my collection.
        • marcus_holmes 3y ago
          I have the reverse. I used to have around 2000 physical books. Every time I moved (and I moved a lot) I'd pack them all up into boxes, move those stupidly heavy boxes, unpack them all. I'd almost never read them. They were just expensive wallpaper. Now I have thousands of ebooks on my hard drive and I carry them all with me when I wander the planet.
  • Freak_NL 3y ago
    > - I'm sending a message to publishers that physical books are in demand (not the case) They are in demand of course, just not by you.
    • marcus_holmes 3y ago
      be the change you want to see in the world.
  • fluxem 3y ago
    But, but, I was told piracy actually helps the publishers https://torrentfreak.com/piracy-can-boost-digital-music-sales-research-shows-160121/ https://torrentfreak.com/piracy-can-boost-digital-music-sale... You cannot eat the cake and have it too
    • marcus_holmes 3y ago
      It's not me eating and having the cake - it's the publishers. They're trying to sell the book and also continue to control it.
    • stodor89 3y ago
      I can, if I clone the cake.
  • hilbert42 3y ago
    "I'm sending a message to publishers that physical books are in demand (not the case)" Since when? There may be a reduction in demand but bookshops where I live are full of customers. I only buy physical copies—actual black atoms on white paper aren't as ephemeral as digital copies, neither are they subject the DRM nonsense.
    • A4ET8a8uTh0 3y ago
      I am kinda doing both. There are books I want to own. Some I own in both formats. There may be a reduction and I am kinda starting to warm up to my reader's ability to add multiple bookmarks to quotable quotes/interesting concepts/neat scripts, but I am not sure parent is right. Maybe it depends on locale? If anyone has good data on that, it is likely to be Amazon.
      • hilbert42 3y ago
        FYI, I'm not referring to Amazon (I've not used it in years), but rather to smaller independent bookshops.
  • brookst 3y ago
    If a store’s prices are too high, do you feel entitled to shoplift because it sends them a message? The world operates on contracts, and we are all free to decline to do business with companies we dislike or who ask more than we think their product is worth. Agree to terms or don’t, but I have a hard time seeing “I’m going to take what they’re offering but not pay what they’re asking” as some kind of noble stand.
    • BobbyJo 3y ago
      > If a store’s prices are too high, do you feel entitled to shoplift because it sends them a message? That's not a great comparison. The problem in this instance isn't a high price, it's a lack of access. If they offered ebooks drm free with a X% unlock fee or something then you'd have a point.
      • brookst 3y ago
        Why? I was told that using the product without paying for it was a righteous form of protest against outrageous terms. How would that not apply to shoplifting because the price is too high or the return policy too short or whatever?
        • boring_twenties 3y ago
          Shoplifting removes an item from the store's posession and is theft. Copying an ebook doesn't remove any copies the publisher has, which is why it's not theft.
          • nec4b 3y ago
            Are you ok with me taking nude pictures of your family and than maybe also make them available for everyone else? It wouldn't be a theft, because you would still have originals.
            • BobbyJo 3y ago
              The point isn't "it's ok", the point is "it's different", so drawing a line between the two is pointless. The nuances of copyright and IP in general don't apply to a bottle of Sprite on the shelf of a 7Eleven. It's fine if you think what they are doing is wrong. The government shares your opinion. Additionally, this argument here is even worse, because the laws you'd be violating in this instance have nothing to do with IP or theft, but rather privacy.
• zzo38computer 3y ago
  I think that this makes sense if you want a physical copy (possibly in addition to the ebook); if not, then I think that you do not need to buy it and waste paper etc. When I want to read a book, I usually prefer a physical copy (and I am willing to pay for it, if I do not merely want to read it for a few hours at the library (if the library has a copy)); sometimes it is helpful to have it on the computer too, and in that case I would only accept non-DRM files, and possibly even piracy. However, some books might be difficult to find, or maybe I only want one page, etc.
• specproc 3y ago
  Entitled, eh? Some assumptions being made about people's ability to afford and access the physical books. I've got cash, plenty of people around me don't and I don't begrudge their piracy. I pay, see below, when I was young and broke I pirated everything. I'm surrounded by people for whom a US minimum wage would be a stonking income, why shouldn't they pirate? The big issue for me personally is shipping. I live outside the US and EU, and it's a real problem getting books out. I often pay more for shipping than I do for the books themselves, and I have to wait up to a month, and there's the ridiculousness of getting a book shipped across the US/EU, then to my third country. My approach is that I pirate freely and happily, without a shred of guilt. Most of the books on my reader only get read up through the first few chapters, some I'll finish completely. I do however like books, real books. If I'm getting into an author I've pirated, I'll then buy some of their other stuff, and I buy frequently. This comes back to the old thing with music pirates being the biggest spenders on music. A classic case, I think. So please, leave your moralizing out of this. There are plenty of legitimate reasons to pirate, much of it ending up with money in author and publishers pockets.
• Derbasti 3y ago
  Or pay for the ebook, and strip the DRM.
  • redeeman 3y ago
    or not pay for the ebook, not have the hassle of having to deal with whatever digital prison they put the contents in. AND not financially reward the ones doing it. Hmm, tough choice... not :)
    • paddw 3y ago
      the idea that not paying for an author's book doesn't negatively affect the author is absurd. there are valid reasons to pirate books sometimes but at the end of the day, someone has to pay something into the system to keep books getting published
• ethagknight 3y ago
  Entitlement is the other way around. Perpetual rightsholders are the greedy ones.
• hollander 3y ago
  Buy the epub and remove the drm.
• ASalazarMX 3y ago
  Companies need to remember at their heart that their business model should rely on being at least a bit more convenient than piracy. I believe authors deserve to be rewarded proportionally to the quality of their work, I also believe good publishers can add a lot of value to an author's work, and even more I believe that DRM-Free publishers have shown it's possible to base their core business model on being more convenient than piracy. I buy a book, it's mine to use on my devices, no strings ttached. The hubris of some companies make them refuse to see the reality of the market, and instead stubbornly push for wider copyright laws, harsher punishment, DRM, and higher walls for their gardens.