4 ms·

Sincere doubt: what percentage of users still use a "mail reader"? Hasn't most of the "end-user" base switched to web alternatives?

wetpaws 3y ago
Web alternatives are so horrible right now, I would not be surprised more folks are migrating back
- lolinder 3y ago
  Fastmail's web UI is as good as ever.
  - the__alchemist 3y ago
    Fastmail won't load your messages if you don't have internet; I think Fastmail users should be especially in need of a client/local storage.
    - BenFranklin100 3y ago
      Yep. That’s a reason why I use Thunderbird.
    - luuurker 3y ago
      In the context of the two comments above yours, that doesn't invalidate what their point. I've been using a web/online only client for a few years and agree with the parent comment. Fastmail's web UI works better for me than Gmail or Outlook.
- PartiallyTyped 3y ago
  I like Protonmail’s.
lucb1e 3y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/newpoll https://news.ycombinator.com/newpoll I use an email client because I don't want to deploy PGP keys to the server -- then there's no point. It's interesting though: on mobile, everyone wants a client application. On desktop, people wonder why bother with client software when we have a browser. "Reddit for Desktop"? Hah, doesn't even exist! But "Reddit is Fun" for Android? People died on that hill.
- 4mitkumar 3y ago
  This is indeed fascinating - people not being as passionate about desktop clients than mobile clients. I wonder if it's to do with desktop usage more linked to typing compared to mobile usage pattern framed around clicks /taps...
  - lucb1e 3y ago
    And that, on mobile, you're sometimes offline. Desktops and especially laptops are meant for use in fixed places like homes and offices (*cough* it's the truth!), where there is internet available, so you don't need an app to have your data cached offline.
  - dorfsmay 3y ago
    I'm thinking of the Play Store which make installing and buying apps very easy and more intuitive for non-tech people.
    - lucb1e 3y ago
      Pardon my french, but Play Store is a bloody mess. My parents and grandparents have a lot of trouble navigating it to find what they need. They have less trouble with f-droid, probably also because it's not overflowing with adware and other crap that they need to wade through on google
- jwells89 3y ago
  Perhaps the difference is that on mobile, users are more sensitive to bad UX because there it's so much more easy for sites and apps to be irritating/unpleasant to use, and big corp first party mobile apps have a tendency to optimize for ad impressions, IAP sales, or engagement over usability. This creates a market for third party apps which exist entirely to be more usable.
assbuttbuttass 3y ago
I still use Thunderbird. It's occasionally really nice to have old emails available offline
jwells89 3y ago
I use Apple Mail in most cases because I have several email accounts and don't want to keep a tab for them all open or have to use a forwarding setup, and on mobile because I don't want to have to use several different apps to check mail.
pmarreck 3y ago
I'm a big fan of Mailspring. It has some notable features other mailer apps (including webmail) don't have. Its only drawback is no iOS/Android app. https://www.getmailspring.com/ https://www.getmailspring.com/
Dalewyn 3y ago
I still use Thunderbird, but at v52, because I want a local copy and archive of all my emails. It's also better to use compared to most webmail interfaces, particularly Gmail which is terrible. Why v52, you might ask? Because I don't have time for updates to break my shit and v52 is the oldest version that supports TLS1.3. I do not like the new interface. At all. It can die in a fire.
Groxx 3y ago
Any time I want to blend multiple accounts, I greatly prefer a mail application. Web blending options all suck and/or give one party all the data all the time, which isn't always an option even if you wanted that.
wsc981 3y ago
I used to prefer Apple Mail on the desktop over web-based alternatives, but nowadays Apple Mail has become quite unstable and slow for me, so I’ve been using gmail’s web interface more and more. A shame really, desktop should provide a better experience.
treve 3y ago
What is the 'doubt' part in your question? If the number is big enough to be worth building? Probably absolute figures are more interesting than a percentage. And they're high enough to take in enough donations to fund an engineering team.
Terr_ 3y ago
*raises hand* I have my own domain with an IMAP account, and use Thunderbird right now because: 1. I want a full synced copy of everything that I can access indefinitely, even if there are network connection problems or if the remote server goes down. 2. I want to ensure everything gets backed along with other personal documents on my computer. 3. I want sufficiently-expressive tools for searching e-mails and filtering new ones that come in. P.S.: While I would ideally want all filter-to-folder stuff to happen server-side, there are some issues with how easy that is to keep up-to-date and issues where some clients (i.e. on my phone) won't sync non-inbox folders to see new messages, etc.
- spacechild1 3y ago
  Exactly the same for me.
- chefandy 3y ago
  Same. I self-host and spend time places without consistent internet access. A dumbfounded browser is useless. A disconnected client is still useful; they were designed for that use case.
- tkgally 3y ago
  > I want to ensure everything gets backed along with other personal documents on my computer. Same here. I started using e-mail around 1993 and for the next decade went through a series of e-mail programs that used different storage formats. Some of that mail I still have as plain text archives, but a lot got corrupted due to character encoding conflicts and other problems that I was unable to resolve. Since around 2005, I’ve been using Thunderbird to back up all of my e-mail locally, including the Gmail accounts that I normally use through the web interface. Several times recently I’ve been asked about something that happened ten or fifteen years ago, and I was able to find the relevant e-mails in my Thunderbird archive in a few seconds.
  - Terr_ 3y ago
    > a lot got corrupted due to character encoding conflicts and other problems that I was unable to resolve. That reminds me that I'd better make sure me-of-2033 will still be able to open these, er... taptaptap Mork [0] mail formats. > Several times recently I’ve been asked about something that happened ten or fifteen years ago, and I was able to find the relevant e-mails in my Thunderbird archive in a few seconds. I had a funny moment where one of my siblings was like: "You should see this comic!" and I said: "That author name looks familiar... Oh hey, that art-style and name rings a bell... Oh look, I e-mailed them under another screen-name once when they were working on something entirely different 15 years ago." [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mork_(file_format) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mork_(file_format)
agnosticmantis 3y ago
I never used the client while on windows (for decades) but for some reason started using the mail app on MacOS. (I recall I used to need to mess with POP/IMAP/SMTP addresses in the past but now I just authenticate once and it just works.) It’s still not an entirely pleasant experience (my biggest gripe is it doesn’t show full email addresses, so you don’t know which account received the email). But still beats having to type the browser and clicking a bookmark I guess.
SoftTalker 3y ago
Yes I use an email client. That way I can deal with my email the way I want to, not the way some web provider thinks I should.
thesuitonym 3y ago
Thunderbird has 31 regular and core contributors, so I'd say at least 32 (Them plus me)

wetpaws 3y ago

Web alternatives are so horrible right now, I would not be surprised more folks are migrating back

lolinder 3y ago
Fastmail's web UI is as good as ever.
- the__alchemist 3y ago
  Fastmail won't load your messages if you don't have internet; I think Fastmail users should be especially in need of a client/local storage.
  - BenFranklin100 3y ago
    Yep. That’s a reason why I use Thunderbird.
  - luuurker 3y ago
    In the context of the two comments above yours, that doesn't invalidate what their point. I've been using a web/online only client for a few years and agree with the parent comment. Fastmail's web UI works better for me than Gmail or Outlook.
PartiallyTyped 3y ago
I like Protonmail’s.

lucb1e 3y ago

https://news.ycombinator.com/newpoll https://news.ycombinator.com/newpoll I use an email client because I don't want to deploy PGP keys to the server -- then there's no point. It's interesting though: on mobile, everyone wants a client application. On desktop, people wonder why bother with client software when we have a browser. "Reddit for Desktop"? Hah, doesn't even exist! But "Reddit is Fun" for Android? People died on that hill.

4mitkumar 3y ago
This is indeed fascinating - people not being as passionate about desktop clients than mobile clients. I wonder if it's to do with desktop usage more linked to typing compared to mobile usage pattern framed around clicks /taps...
- lucb1e 3y ago
  And that, on mobile, you're sometimes offline. Desktops and especially laptops are meant for use in fixed places like homes and offices (*cough* it's the truth!), where there is internet available, so you don't need an app to have your data cached offline.
- dorfsmay 3y ago
  I'm thinking of the Play Store which make installing and buying apps very easy and more intuitive for non-tech people.
  - lucb1e 3y ago
    Pardon my french, but Play Store is a bloody mess. My parents and grandparents have a lot of trouble navigating it to find what they need. They have less trouble with f-droid, probably also because it's not overflowing with adware and other crap that they need to wade through on google
jwells89 3y ago
Perhaps the difference is that on mobile, users are more sensitive to bad UX because there it's so much more easy for sites and apps to be irritating/unpleasant to use, and big corp first party mobile apps have a tendency to optimize for ad impressions, IAP sales, or engagement over usability. This creates a market for third party apps which exist entirely to be more usable.

assbuttbuttass 3y ago

I still use Thunderbird. It's occasionally really nice to have old emails available offline

jwells89 3y ago

I use Apple Mail in most cases because I have several email accounts and don't want to keep a tab for them all open or have to use a forwarding setup, and on mobile because I don't want to have to use several different apps to check mail.

pmarreck 3y ago

I'm a big fan of Mailspring. It has some notable features other mailer apps (including webmail) don't have. Its only drawback is no iOS/Android app. https://www.getmailspring.com/ https://www.getmailspring.com/

Dalewyn 3y ago

I still use Thunderbird, but at v52, because I want a local copy and archive of all my emails. It's also better to use compared to most webmail interfaces, particularly Gmail which is terrible. Why v52, you might ask? Because I don't have time for updates to break my shit and v52 is the oldest version that supports TLS1.3. I do not like the new interface. At all. It can die in a fire.

Groxx 3y ago

Any time I want to blend multiple accounts, I greatly prefer a mail application. Web blending options all suck and/or give one party all the data all the time, which isn't always an option even if you wanted that.

wsc981 3y ago

I used to prefer Apple Mail on the desktop over web-based alternatives, but nowadays Apple Mail has become quite unstable and slow for me, so I’ve been using gmail’s web interface more and more. A shame really, desktop should provide a better experience.

treve 3y ago

What is the 'doubt' part in your question? If the number is big enough to be worth building? Probably absolute figures are more interesting than a percentage. And they're high enough to take in enough donations to fund an engineering team.

Terr_ 3y ago

*raises hand* I have my own domain with an IMAP account, and use Thunderbird right now because: 1. I want a full synced copy of everything that I can access indefinitely, even if there are network connection problems or if the remote server goes down. 2. I want to ensure everything gets backed along with other personal documents on my computer. 3. I want sufficiently-expressive tools for searching e-mails and filtering new ones that come in. P.S.: While I would ideally want all filter-to-folder stuff to happen server-side, there are some issues with how easy that is to keep up-to-date and issues where some clients (i.e. on my phone) won't sync non-inbox folders to see new messages, etc.

spacechild1 3y ago
Exactly the same for me.
chefandy 3y ago
Same. I self-host and spend time places without consistent internet access. A dumbfounded browser is useless. A disconnected client is still useful; they were designed for that use case.
tkgally 3y ago
> I want to ensure everything gets backed along with other personal documents on my computer. Same here. I started using e-mail around 1993 and for the next decade went through a series of e-mail programs that used different storage formats. Some of that mail I still have as plain text archives, but a lot got corrupted due to character encoding conflicts and other problems that I was unable to resolve. Since around 2005, I’ve been using Thunderbird to back up all of my e-mail locally, including the Gmail accounts that I normally use through the web interface. Several times recently I’ve been asked about something that happened ten or fifteen years ago, and I was able to find the relevant e-mails in my Thunderbird archive in a few seconds.
- Terr_ 3y ago
  > a lot got corrupted due to character encoding conflicts and other problems that I was unable to resolve. That reminds me that I'd better make sure me-of-2033 will still be able to open these, er... taptaptap Mork [0] mail formats. > Several times recently I’ve been asked about something that happened ten or fifteen years ago, and I was able to find the relevant e-mails in my Thunderbird archive in a few seconds. I had a funny moment where one of my siblings was like: "You should see this comic!" and I said: "That author name looks familiar... Oh hey, that art-style and name rings a bell... Oh look, I e-mailed them under another screen-name once when they were working on something entirely different 15 years ago." [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mork_(file_format) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mork_(file_format)

agnosticmantis 3y ago

I never used the client while on windows (for decades) but for some reason started using the mail app on MacOS. (I recall I used to need to mess with POP/IMAP/SMTP addresses in the past but now I just authenticate once and it just works.) It’s still not an entirely pleasant experience (my biggest gripe is it doesn’t show full email addresses, so you don’t know which account received the email). But still beats having to type the browser and clicking a bookmark I guess.

SoftTalker 3y ago

Yes I use an email client. That way I can deal with my email the way I want to, not the way some web provider thinks I should.

thesuitonym 3y ago

Thunderbird has 31 regular and core contributors, so I'd say at least 32 (Them plus me)