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The Hagia Sophia "mosque" was a Christian orthodox church that dates from Roman times and was a secular museum from the 1930s until 2020. That decision to recla

The Hagia Sophia "mosque" was a Christian orthodox church that dates from Roman times and was a secular museum from the 1930s until 2020. That decision to reclassify as a mosque is widely condemned by historians and others.

mda 3y ago
You forgot to mention that it was converted to a mosque in 1453 and stayed like that until 1930s. It was the symbol of the victory by Mehmet II.
resolutebat 3y ago
It was an actual scare quote free mosque from 1453 to 1934, so if anything the secular museum phase was out of character.
- OkayPhysicist 3y ago
  It's not a coincidence that the conversion to a museum coincided with Ataturk's sweeping reforms in making a secular state. The reversion is a mark of a return to fundamentalism and a decline into theocracy.
  - Scarblac 3y ago
    Hopefully there's something in between a pure secular state vs fundamentalism and theocracy that they'll settle on.
nashashmi 3y ago
A tidbit info: Today's Hagia Sophia is version three of the original church. The original was made of wood and burned down. The second version was of stone and collapsed in an earthquake. The third version took 20+ years to build. Another tidbit: Hagia Sophia can be translated to english as Saint Sofia. It is pronounced in Turkish as Aya Sofia. Aya is from an arabic word that means "sign" like sign of god (similar to "aya"-tullah in Iran). The similarity between "Hagia" and "Aya" is so strong as though it follows the concept of changing the "j" sound to "h" or "y" sound. When applying that same rule to "Ayatollah", you could basically translate the word to "Saint of God". Every time I think of this, it gives me the jitters.
- kleton 3y ago
  Ayasofya seems more likely to be a Turkish transliteration of Hagia Sofia, given it is pronounced exactly the same.
  - kasabali 3y ago
    transliteration of Greek "Αγία", to be more specific.
  - dizhn 3y ago
    Probably not since a lot of churches start with the name Aya in Turkish because they are named after saints. (Like this one: https://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aya_%C4%B0rini https://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aya_%C4%B0rini)
    - nashashmi 3y ago
      Aya Irene is from the Era preceding Ottomans. That word means "Peace". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hagia_Irene?wprov=sfti1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hagia_Irene?wprov=sfti1
ChainOfFools 3y ago
They will never fully convert back to a mosque, absolutely no way they want the loss of tourism that will result from making probably the most iconic draw for tourism to the city a place that isn't open to the public in all respects. Last time I was there a few years ago I recall there's a small section near one of the lower galleries off to the side that has been reopened for use as a sort-of-mosque but it's the size of a couple double wide trailers and not really part of the main structure as people think of it. It might be a test of the waters to see how far they can go but I promise you, money will trump religion in this case no question about it.
- twelve40 3y ago
  the floor is now covered, the upper levels are closed off to visitors. it seems to be working just like any other mosque, which you can also visit (like the one in the article, for example)
- njpwerner 3y ago
  They have changed it since you last visited. It is now primarily used as a mosque instead of a museum. The old floors have been covered by a carpet and it hosts several prayers a day. https://www.dailysabah.com/turkey/istanbul/istanbuls-reverted-hagia-sophia-mosque-welcomes-millions-in-a-year https://www.dailysabah.com/turkey/istanbul/istanbuls-reverte...
- OkayPhysicist 3y ago
  I've been several times over the last decade, and you've missed the most recent changes: As of my last trip a couple weeks ago it's now pretty heavily leaned into the mosque angle, with you having to take off your shoes to enter just like any other mosque, and they also covered up the stucco depictions of humans inside with large tapestries. It's still aggressively available to the public, but you're not going to see much of the pre-Ottoman era inside.
  - ChainOfFools 3y ago
    It sounds like I did miss quite a lot of change, as of 2016 or 2017 I could still walk around pretty much anywhere on both levels and all of the main frescoes were still exposed (although a lot of material was still covered under plaster ... ostensibly for preservation). there was an minbar bar in the apse but it was skewed at an odd angle in a way that looked like it hadnt been used in quite a long time. Did they cover up the frescoes in the pendentives of the main dome that depict the (very much non-human looking) seraphim?
fathyb 3y ago
Nice use of scare quotes but that's false. It has been a mosque from 1453 until the 1930s. I have to say, I'm seeing this kind of "byzantine fake news" more and more on HN threads related to Islamic history.
- throwaway6734 3y ago
  It was the premier eastern orthodox christian church for a 1000 years before that and taken by conquest. Of course some people are still salty about that. It would be like the Jews turning Mecca into a synagogue or st peters basilica being turned into a mosque
  - abeppu 3y ago
    As a non-religious person, I find the indignation about the idea of turning one flavor of house of worship to the god of Abraham into another flavor of house of worship to the god of Abraham to be pretty amusing. And when it happens, it seems so spiteful! Last year I saw the Mosque-Cathedral of Cordoba, and I was struck that the Catholics seemed to be stuffing figurative art _everywhere_, and I guessed it was partly to thumb their noses at the Muslims. My understanding is that: (a) the three big Abrahamic religions all place the most emphasis on worshiping as a congregation on different days and (b) among each group, a minority of people who identify with the label actually go to worship with a congregation regularly. Would it really be _so_ bad if you had one big fancy palace which switched from hosting Muslims on Friday, Jews on Saturday, Christians on Sunday and could be a museum / community space / charity space Mon-Thurs?
    - fathyb 3y ago
      With that view it can get even more amusing when you consider that it was first conquered by the latin empire during the 4th crusade and converted into a catholic church, and then back into an orthodox church about 60 years after, and then finally into a mosque about 200 years after! As for an interfaith building, it's an interesting thought. There might be issues with ceremonies such as weddings, funerals, and events. There is the Abrahamic Family House in Abu Dhabi, but it's not a single building. I thought something like this might exist in Jerusalem, but I couldn't find any..

mda 3y ago

You forgot to mention that it was converted to a mosque in 1453 and stayed like that until 1930s. It was the symbol of the victory by Mehmet II.

resolutebat 3y ago

It was an actual scare quote free mosque from 1453 to 1934, so if anything the secular museum phase was out of character.

OkayPhysicist 3y ago
It's not a coincidence that the conversion to a museum coincided with Ataturk's sweeping reforms in making a secular state. The reversion is a mark of a return to fundamentalism and a decline into theocracy.
- Scarblac 3y ago
  Hopefully there's something in between a pure secular state vs fundamentalism and theocracy that they'll settle on.

nashashmi 3y ago

A tidbit info: Today's Hagia Sophia is version three of the original church. The original was made of wood and burned down. The second version was of stone and collapsed in an earthquake. The third version took 20+ years to build. Another tidbit: Hagia Sophia can be translated to english as Saint Sofia. It is pronounced in Turkish as Aya Sofia. Aya is from an arabic word that means "sign" like sign of god (similar to "aya"-tullah in Iran). The similarity between "Hagia" and "Aya" is so strong as though it follows the concept of changing the "j" sound to "h" or "y" sound. When applying that same rule to "Ayatollah", you could basically translate the word to "Saint of God". Every time I think of this, it gives me the jitters.

kleton 3y ago
Ayasofya seems more likely to be a Turkish transliteration of Hagia Sofia, given it is pronounced exactly the same.
- kasabali 3y ago
  transliteration of Greek "Αγία", to be more specific.
- dizhn 3y ago
  Probably not since a lot of churches start with the name Aya in Turkish because they are named after saints. (Like this one: https://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aya_%C4%B0rini https://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aya_%C4%B0rini)
  - nashashmi 3y ago
    Aya Irene is from the Era preceding Ottomans. That word means "Peace". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hagia_Irene?wprov=sfti1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hagia_Irene?wprov=sfti1

ChainOfFools 3y ago

They will never fully convert back to a mosque, absolutely no way they want the loss of tourism that will result from making probably the most iconic draw for tourism to the city a place that isn't open to the public in all respects. Last time I was there a few years ago I recall there's a small section near one of the lower galleries off to the side that has been reopened for use as a sort-of-mosque but it's the size of a couple double wide trailers and not really part of the main structure as people think of it. It might be a test of the waters to see how far they can go but I promise you, money will trump religion in this case no question about it.

twelve40 3y ago
the floor is now covered, the upper levels are closed off to visitors. it seems to be working just like any other mosque, which you can also visit (like the one in the article, for example)
njpwerner 3y ago
They have changed it since you last visited. It is now primarily used as a mosque instead of a museum. The old floors have been covered by a carpet and it hosts several prayers a day. https://www.dailysabah.com/turkey/istanbul/istanbuls-reverted-hagia-sophia-mosque-welcomes-millions-in-a-year https://www.dailysabah.com/turkey/istanbul/istanbuls-reverte...
OkayPhysicist 3y ago
I've been several times over the last decade, and you've missed the most recent changes: As of my last trip a couple weeks ago it's now pretty heavily leaned into the mosque angle, with you having to take off your shoes to enter just like any other mosque, and they also covered up the stucco depictions of humans inside with large tapestries. It's still aggressively available to the public, but you're not going to see much of the pre-Ottoman era inside.
- ChainOfFools 3y ago
  It sounds like I did miss quite a lot of change, as of 2016 or 2017 I could still walk around pretty much anywhere on both levels and all of the main frescoes were still exposed (although a lot of material was still covered under plaster ... ostensibly for preservation). there was an minbar bar in the apse but it was skewed at an odd angle in a way that looked like it hadnt been used in quite a long time. Did they cover up the frescoes in the pendentives of the main dome that depict the (very much non-human looking) seraphim?

fathyb 3y ago

Nice use of scare quotes but that's false. It has been a mosque from 1453 until the 1930s. I have to say, I'm seeing this kind of "byzantine fake news" more and more on HN threads related to Islamic history.

throwaway6734 3y ago
It was the premier eastern orthodox christian church for a 1000 years before that and taken by conquest. Of course some people are still salty about that. It would be like the Jews turning Mecca into a synagogue or st peters basilica being turned into a mosque
- abeppu 3y ago
  As a non-religious person, I find the indignation about the idea of turning one flavor of house of worship to the god of Abraham into another flavor of house of worship to the god of Abraham to be pretty amusing. And when it happens, it seems so spiteful! Last year I saw the Mosque-Cathedral of Cordoba, and I was struck that the Catholics seemed to be stuffing figurative art _everywhere_, and I guessed it was partly to thumb their noses at the Muslims. My understanding is that: (a) the three big Abrahamic religions all place the most emphasis on worshiping as a congregation on different days and (b) among each group, a minority of people who identify with the label actually go to worship with a congregation regularly. Would it really be _so_ bad if you had one big fancy palace which switched from hosting Muslims on Friday, Jews on Saturday, Christians on Sunday and could be a museum / community space / charity space Mon-Thurs?
  - fathyb 3y ago
    With that view it can get even more amusing when you consider that it was first conquered by the latin empire during the 4th crusade and converted into a catholic church, and then back into an orthodox church about 60 years after, and then finally into a mosque about 200 years after! As for an interfaith building, it's an interesting thought. There might be issues with ceremonies such as weddings, funerals, and events. There is the Abrahamic Family House in Abu Dhabi, but it's not a single building. I thought something like this might exist in Jerusalem, but I couldn't find any..