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> Knowing that the game is rigged is liberating! > how should you be expected to earn a living using their platforms unless you find a way to game the system?
by bob1029 3y ago
> Knowing that the game is rigged is liberating!
> how should you be expected to earn a living using their platforms unless you find a way to game the system? Do you have 20 smartphones lying around, per chance?
This is the message I'd take away. Once you learn that the whole capitalist hellscape operates in approximately the same way, you can start to explicitly target its mechanisms in order to improve your life.
Having moral flexibility helps so much. Being actively willing to "fuck over" arbitrary, faceless entities makes all the difference. If you start looking at the law in terms of "how much does it cost to do whatever I want", then you are now effectively playing by the same rules as those who seek to control your life.
- WalterBright 3y agoHonor is what separates men from animals. We all get to choose which we are.
- digging 3y agoif that's true, then the animals are in charge. you'll be miserable for the honor of being enslaved by beast? the GP hit the nail on the head saying, > If you start looking at the law in terms of "how much does it cost to do whatever I want", then you are now effectively playing by the same rules as those who seek to control your life. laws are for the powerless.
- WalterBright 3y agoTrying to justify acting like an animal means making that choice.
- pravus 3y agoThe only way to negotiate with animals is on their terms. When in Rome as they say...
- digging 3y agoyes, I'm happily making that choice. it is the only sane choice. if you really think the kingdom can be neatly divided into wolverines, nuthatches, and happy people on one side, and "honorable" people on the other side, you do you. aren't you amazed that an animal like me can argue with you though?
- WalterBright 3y agoChoosing honor over animalism has nothing to do with intelligence nor education. Like I said, each of us gets to make that choice. An observation - many people brag about things like cheating in school "because everybody does it", or other excuses. When other people hear these, they smile and nod and move them to the "do not trust" list in their heads. The cheaters unwittingly miss out on a lot of opportunities that way.
- Apocryphon 3y agoWhat about all of the cheaters who don’t brag?
- mrguyorama 3y ago>laws are for the powerless. But understanding that doesn't give you any power back. Knowing that you can just pay large fines to do illegal business things doesn't help someone who isn't running a business or can afford to pay those large fines
- digging 3y agonope, you're still in grave danger if you're not wealthy. but it does give the insight that we don't have to play by their rules when we realize most of those rules only exist to make it harder for us to play.
- mrguyorama 3y ago"Not playing by the rules" can't help you if not playing by the rules requires resources. That's the WHOLE POINT of the system as designed. You as an individual cannot do anything outside the system even if you know it's rigged unless you already had the resources required to play outside the system. It allows you to maybe optimize for a different state within the system, but that state will still be one that you are "allowed" to optimize for. Knowing the casino is rigged does not give you the ability to beat the house. It only allows you to better decide to go home, but in reality there's no equivalent to "going home".
- digging 3y agoI don't know what your point is. We both agreed the system is bullshit. In response, you can either steal from Walmart or not.
- solarmist 3y agoI somewhat disagree. It doesn't give you resources, but it does give you a degree of freedom in your thinking and problem-solving. There is also the fact that many things you could be fined for aren't worth it if you're small enough not to be a threat. Most of those threats come from other companies holding you to the flame, not from public institutions. Follow the rules enforced by public institutions, but take risks when it's not worth it for private institutions to complain. That said, if you don't have money for multiple years of expenses, it doesn't help you much directly.
- akomtu 3y agoThe real power is in writing the laws. Legal business isn't very profitable because everyone is doing it, but illegal business can be quite dangerous. This problem goes away if you can write laws to stifle your competitors, while keeping all the freedom to yourself. Example: the insider trading laws.
- digging 3y agooh most definitely. you break the laws you can afford to and you repeal the ones you can't.
- solarmist 3y agoWhat is moral and what is legal are different. There is overlap, but they are marketed as being the same thing. They are not. I think you are mostly reacting to GP's word choice of "moral flexibility," and are missing the point. Do the moral thing, but view the legal as pay-to-play. A great example is parking tickets. Violating parking rules results in a fine and is not immoral in many situations.
- WalterBright 3y ago> What is moral and what is legal are different. I understand and agree with that. "Having moral flexibility helps so much. Being actively willing to "fuck over" arbitrary, faceless entities makes all the difference. If you start looking at the law in terms of "how much does it cost to do whatever I want", then you are now effectively playing by the same rules as those who seek to control your life." This clearly advocates no honor at all. It is not dishonorable to not follow an unjust law (such as a law requiring you to inform on your neighbors), but it is dishonorable to be a cheater because others are cheating.
- digging 3y agoyour mistake is thinking that there is moral equivalence in stealing from your neighbor vs stealing from a billionaire. and please define what honor means to you in this conversation, we've moved too far past pithiness.
- WalterBright 3y ago> there is moral equivalence in stealing from your neighbor vs stealing from a billionaire They are the same. You said it yourself: STEALING
- solarmist 3y agoI read this as a shortcut phrasing, not meant to be literal. Doing something that negatively impacts their stock price could be categorized as "stealing" from a billionaire. Is that really stealing? Purposely infringing on a company's trademarks/copyrights/marketing/etc (I don't mean pirating movies/books/etc) to gain publicity/get started could be called stealing from that company. But I don't consider that immoral in the slightest. There often isn't simple terminology for discussing these differences, so people use shortcuts like this.
- mrguyorama 3y agoChoosing not to overturn the current abhorrent and unjust system is NOT honor.
- WalterBright 3y agohttps://www.admissions.caltech.edu/why-caltech/student-life/honor-code https://www.admissions.caltech.edu/why-caltech/student-life/...
- solarmist 3y agoThe people writing the rules always have an unfair advantage. They can include literally anything they come up with and often, with enough time and rewriting, make it sound fair and equitable. How do you propose addressing that? You can't be on the rules-making groups of every institution you participate in.
- WalterBright 3y agoHonor is independent of the rules. (Honor isn't about fairness or equity, either. It's its own thing.)
- solarmist 3y agoI'm sorry, but "you'll know it when you see it" and "if you have to ask, you'll never know aren't" don't mean much to me. Tell me what standard of conduct do you ascribe to if fairness or equity aren't included? It sounds like you have an unrealistically strict definition of honor if those aren't included.
- WalterBright 3y ago> Tell me what standard of conduct do you ascribe to if fairness or equity aren't included? I never said that being honorable was the only thing I aspire to. Fairness and equity are different topics. It shares some aspects with morality, but is not interchangeable with morality. Honor is things like keeping your word. Not taking things from others that aren't yours. Not trying to trick or force others into doing things. Not being abusive towards others. Not betraying a confidence. Not cheating. Is dishonesty such a hard concept?
- 3y ago
- tiedieconderoga 3y agoIn the words of John Oliver's character on Community, "It's just that the average person has a much harder time saying 'booyah' to moral relativism."