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I would like for OpenZFS to get merged into Linux but to be more realistic, even DTrace didn't get merged and that is code that was actually relicensed to GPL (

I would like for OpenZFS to get merged into Linux but to be more realistic, even DTrace didn't get merged and that is code that was actually relicensed to GPL (UPL for the user space): https://www.theregister.com/2018/02/19/oracle_open_sources_dtrace_changes_licence_to_gpl/ https://www.theregister.com/2018/02/19/oracle_open_sources_d... Frankly, it is more likely, distributions will add/ solidify infrastructure for making OpenZFS really hassle-free and well integrated and cloud/ VPS providers will have alternative images built with Root-on-ZFS. Until then, it is not that hard to convert a VM from EXT4 to OpenZFS or to build your own image. Shameless plug, I have done a video about a procedure how to convert EXT4 to OpenZFS from within the VM: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoRVFRufZI0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoRVFRufZI0 Or you can just open the notes and copy&paste from there: https://github.com/KaliszAd/ext4-to-zfs-conversion https://github.com/KaliszAd/ext4-to-zfs-conversion

intelVISA 3y ago
Thanks for the info, I know painfully little of modern filesystems: without opening too many worm cans ZFS > XFS as a general purpose ext4 replacement?
- kaliszad 3y ago
  It depends, but as a rule of thumb for more traditional servers and development workstations ZFS is a superior choice. You can probably look at https://mwl.io/nonfiction/os#fmzfs https://mwl.io/nonfiction/os#fmzfs to get a quick and straight forward introduction. For me, ZFS beats other approaches with snapshots/ rollbacks and send/ receive. It really hits you, when you develop something using a database or a lot of files. If you want to test something, just do a snapshot (even without shutting down the database) and just try it out. If you mess up, you can at the very least shut the DB down, rollback (which is instant) and start the DB again. It will be in the state before you messed up. You can also make a clone and spin up another instance and compare. With files, you can even diff snapshots, so as to extract e.g. a deleted file. Also this is a great mitigation against ransomware, if your network drives are backed by ZFS. Also in the case of a database, compression and the integrity guarantees help a lot. You can do some tuning because of it that might make your performance better/ more consistent - because backups can get a lot more efficient and you can cache more data in RAM when it is compressed or buy better SSDs when they don't need to be that large. Now you can probably do something similar with btrfs, e.g. Turris Omnia is using btrfs internally and it saved me once while I was doing some broader reconfiguration. Otherwise, I don't know about it - it is probably reliable enough. You can do LVM snapshots. There are many approaches to solve a particular problem. ZFS was just designed to do some of these things and has about 15 years of production use in some of the most serious settings. XFS or EXT4 is a decent choice for systems that you just don't want to think about. They are available by default, don't usually need any kind of tuning/ configuration. XFS is probably the better choice instead of EXT4, if you have a typical mdadm/ lvm RAID for e.g. surveillance camera recordings. For VMs that do some computation but the data is stored elsewhere, you can use the usually default EXT4 for the base filesystem. Converting such systems to ZFS might not be worth it. For the company database, filer, archive, backup ZFS should be something you evaluate as the first option. Just be sure you know a bit about how ZFS stores its data and how to configure the values for your use case. ZFS is more rigid in some places however extremely flexible in others be sure to understand where the rigid parts might be a problem to you.
rascul 3y ago
I don't think Linus is interested in merging ZFS. > And honestly, there is no way I can merge any of the ZFS efforts until I get an official letter from Oracle that is signed by their main legal counsel or preferably by Larry Ellison himself that says that yes, it's ok to do so and treat the end result as GPL'd. > Other people think it can be ok to merge ZFS code into the kernel and that the module interface makes it ok, and that's their decision. But considering Oracle's litigious nature, and the questions over licensing, there's no way I can feel safe in ever doing so. https://www.realworldtech.com/forum/?threadid=189711&curpostid=189841 https://www.realworldtech.com/forum/?threadid=189711&curpost...
- tremon 3y ago
  To me that reads as "he would be interested, if not for the volatile nature of the copyright owner".

intelVISA 3y ago

Thanks for the info, I know painfully little of modern filesystems: without opening too many worm cans ZFS > XFS as a general purpose ext4 replacement?

kaliszad 3y ago
It depends, but as a rule of thumb for more traditional servers and development workstations ZFS is a superior choice. You can probably look at https://mwl.io/nonfiction/os#fmzfs https://mwl.io/nonfiction/os#fmzfs to get a quick and straight forward introduction. For me, ZFS beats other approaches with snapshots/ rollbacks and send/ receive. It really hits you, when you develop something using a database or a lot of files. If you want to test something, just do a snapshot (even without shutting down the database) and just try it out. If you mess up, you can at the very least shut the DB down, rollback (which is instant) and start the DB again. It will be in the state before you messed up. You can also make a clone and spin up another instance and compare. With files, you can even diff snapshots, so as to extract e.g. a deleted file. Also this is a great mitigation against ransomware, if your network drives are backed by ZFS. Also in the case of a database, compression and the integrity guarantees help a lot. You can do some tuning because of it that might make your performance better/ more consistent - because backups can get a lot more efficient and you can cache more data in RAM when it is compressed or buy better SSDs when they don't need to be that large. Now you can probably do something similar with btrfs, e.g. Turris Omnia is using btrfs internally and it saved me once while I was doing some broader reconfiguration. Otherwise, I don't know about it - it is probably reliable enough. You can do LVM snapshots. There are many approaches to solve a particular problem. ZFS was just designed to do some of these things and has about 15 years of production use in some of the most serious settings. XFS or EXT4 is a decent choice for systems that you just don't want to think about. They are available by default, don't usually need any kind of tuning/ configuration. XFS is probably the better choice instead of EXT4, if you have a typical mdadm/ lvm RAID for e.g. surveillance camera recordings. For VMs that do some computation but the data is stored elsewhere, you can use the usually default EXT4 for the base filesystem. Converting such systems to ZFS might not be worth it. For the company database, filer, archive, backup ZFS should be something you evaluate as the first option. Just be sure you know a bit about how ZFS stores its data and how to configure the values for your use case. ZFS is more rigid in some places however extremely flexible in others be sure to understand where the rigid parts might be a problem to you.

rascul 3y ago

I don't think Linus is interested in merging ZFS. > And honestly, there is no way I can merge any of the ZFS efforts until I get an official letter from Oracle that is signed by their main legal counsel or preferably by Larry Ellison himself that says that yes, it's ok to do so and treat the end result as GPL'd. > Other people think it can be ok to merge ZFS code into the kernel and that the module interface makes it ok, and that's their decision. But considering Oracle's litigious nature, and the questions over licensing, there's no way I can feel safe in ever doing so. https://www.realworldtech.com/forum/?threadid=189711&curpostid=189841 https://www.realworldtech.com/forum/?threadid=189711&curpost...

tremon 3y ago
To me that reads as "he would be interested, if not for the volatile nature of the copyright owner".