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I downloaded and tried to try Vale. The very first impression of running 'valec' compiler is that it "panics" when no arguments are given. It literally writes

I downloaded and tried to try Vale. The very first impression of running 'valec' compiler is that it "panics" when no arguments are given. It literally writes so: "(panic)". I want to point out that "panic" is a very strong word and should be avoided in scenarios where a normal error handling takes place. Any kind of panic is always a sign of an uncontrolled situation, and if a program ever "panics" it leaves a bad taste in the mouth. The next struggle was to get the basic help for the command-line parameters. But it's currently non-existent. The next and final stuggle: trying a hello world sample. I copied the code from the website: import stdlib.*; exported func main() { println("Hello world!"); } and saved it to 'hello.vl' file. Then, I tried to build it: > valec hello.vl However, no luck for me this time: Unknown subcommand, specify `build`, `run`, etc. Use `help` for more. It looks like I should specify 'build' command. Let's try: > valec build hello.vl Well, here is the result: Unrecognized input: hello.vl (panic) Hm. Let's try to get some help: > valec help The result of the help command is: <nothing> Not very helpful. At this point, I gave up. How does this thing work?

emblaegh 3y ago
The github readme shows how to use the compiler. https://github.com/ValeLang/Vale#building-a-vale-program https://github.com/ValeLang/Vale#building-a-vale-program
insanitybit 3y ago
Isn't vale basically still in the R&D phase? That's how it has felt, certainly. I would expect specific commits on specific branches to work and that's it - no that they have a compiler that arbitrary people can use to start building things. Then again, their README doesn't really indiciate this and does say "Try Vale" so idk. But it seems very R&D/POC at this point.
- aktuel 3y ago
  From the home page: "Vale is currently in alpha!" (https://vale.dev/ https://vale.dev/)
  - msla 3y ago
    But that doesn't distinguish between "VC Alpha", which means early access, and "Programmer Alpha", which means basic functionality doesn't work. (The inverse is "VC 1.0", which means pre-release but we had to meet a deadline, and "Programmer 1.0", which means it's the first stable version.)
    - flohofwoe 3y ago
      > "Programmer 1.0", which means it's the first stable version I thought "Programmer 1.0" is more like +Infinity and never ever reached? ;)
      - eindiran 3y ago
        I don't understand, what set of programmers never (do/want to?) to reach 1.0? Are you referencing something like the Tex versioning scheme? Conventionally 1.0 is just the inflection point where things are featureful and stable enough that you start making guarantees about the stability of whatever interface/contract/API/whatever that matter to the consumer of whatever you are building.
        flohofwoe 3y ago
        At least in the past a lot of useful (and actually 'finished') tools were forever at a some 0.x version, especially before semantic versioning got popular. I guess they just wanted some increasing version number but just '1, 2, 3, 4, 5, ...' looked too weird, so they went for '0.1, 0.2, 0.3, ...'.
  - Tozen 3y ago
    As far as it can be ascertained, Vale has been in development for at least 3 years (2020).
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
bryancoxwell 3y ago
This is about what I’d expect from software that’s still in alpha though.
verdagon 3y ago
Sorry about that, it seems it doesn't print out the help file correctly any more. If you manually cat the valec-help-build.txt in the download, it should explain what you're looking for. The compiler is very rough around the edges right now. August-May was spent being 100% focused on prototyping regions, and you're experiencing the tech debt I accrued on the way there (including the lack of an integration test for the help system). I've been paying that debt down for the last 1-2 months and we're still not back up to where we were at the 0.2 release. If you need any more help, let me know, or swing by the discord server where there are many helpful folks. Cheers!
yosefk 3y ago
These aren't even bugs, they're "UI problems." For something experimental, I think it deserves some slack even for actual bugs. UI-wise and even bugs-wise, eg 40 years old C++ debugging experience in 35 years old gdb will give any experimenral language a run for its money (eg printing funcname()::staticvarname is wierd UI and fails about half the time, etc.), not to mention C++ build systems. I think for experimental tech you might criticize the concept but it's entitled to a rough UI.

emblaegh 3y ago

The github readme shows how to use the compiler. https://github.com/ValeLang/Vale#building-a-vale-program https://github.com/ValeLang/Vale#building-a-vale-program

insanitybit 3y ago

Isn't vale basically still in the R&D phase? That's how it has felt, certainly. I would expect specific commits on specific branches to work and that's it - no that they have a compiler that arbitrary people can use to start building things. Then again, their README doesn't really indiciate this and does say "Try Vale" so idk. But it seems very R&D/POC at this point.

aktuel 3y ago
From the home page: "Vale is currently in alpha!" (https://vale.dev/ https://vale.dev/)
- msla 3y ago
  But that doesn't distinguish between "VC Alpha", which means early access, and "Programmer Alpha", which means basic functionality doesn't work. (The inverse is "VC 1.0", which means pre-release but we had to meet a deadline, and "Programmer 1.0", which means it's the first stable version.)
  - flohofwoe 3y ago
    > "Programmer 1.0", which means it's the first stable version I thought "Programmer 1.0" is more like +Infinity and never ever reached? ;)
    - eindiran 3y ago
      I don't understand, what set of programmers never (do/want to?) to reach 1.0? Are you referencing something like the Tex versioning scheme? Conventionally 1.0 is just the inflection point where things are featureful and stable enough that you start making guarantees about the stability of whatever interface/contract/API/whatever that matter to the consumer of whatever you are building.
      - flohofwoe 3y ago
        At least in the past a lot of useful (and actually 'finished') tools were forever at a some 0.x version, especially before semantic versioning got popular. I guess they just wanted some increasing version number but just '1, 2, 3, 4, 5, ...' looked too weird, so they went for '0.1, 0.2, 0.3, ...'.
- Tozen 3y ago
  As far as it can be ascertained, Vale has been in development for at least 3 years (2020).
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

bryancoxwell 3y ago

This is about what I’d expect from software that’s still in alpha though.

verdagon 3y ago

Sorry about that, it seems it doesn't print out the help file correctly any more. If you manually cat the valec-help-build.txt in the download, it should explain what you're looking for. The compiler is very rough around the edges right now. August-May was spent being 100% focused on prototyping regions, and you're experiencing the tech debt I accrued on the way there (including the lack of an integration test for the help system). I've been paying that debt down for the last 1-2 months and we're still not back up to where we were at the 0.2 release. If you need any more help, let me know, or swing by the discord server where there are many helpful folks. Cheers!

yosefk 3y ago

These aren't even bugs, they're "UI problems." For something experimental, I think it deserves some slack even for actual bugs. UI-wise and even bugs-wise, eg 40 years old C++ debugging experience in 35 years old gdb will give any experimenral language a run for its money (eg printing funcname()::staticvarname is wierd UI and fails about half the time, etc.), not to mention C++ build systems. I think for experimental tech you might criticize the concept but it's entitled to a rough UI.