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This seems like a thinly disguised jab at people using Bluesky and Threads. I've seen a lot of fediverse enthusiasts who are extremely cynical about those two n

This seems like a thinly disguised jab at people using Bluesky and Threads. I've seen a lot of fediverse enthusiasts who are extremely cynical about those two new platforms, because the former is by Jack Dorsey (ex Twitter) and the latter is literally by Meta, which is of course run by Mark Zuckerberg. I can understand that towards Meta, but Bluesky seem to be trying something different and building a new protocol; when it comes from people who've been on the fediverse forever and regularly complain about how many other people aren't using it, this feels like sour grapes to me. The existing federated social media have some deeply ingrained problems stemming from the protocol, and new ideas ought to be welcomed.

rglullis 3y ago
What about the Fediverse flaws that can not be fixed within the context of ActivityPub? BlueSky creation of a separate protocol is an obvious attempt to create a platform where they get to become the gatekeepers of content distribution. The fact that they haven't opened up yet for other nodes makes it clear.
- TazeTSchnitzel 3y ago
  ActivityPub has effectively become a drop-in replacement for the constellation of older systems (OStatus etc) that the fediverse used to use. That was possible because it didn't require changes in how the nodes in the network relate to eachother. Bluesky on the other hand is trying out a completely different network topology. It's too soon to say if it'll ultimately be better, but if it does succeed, it won't necessarily produce something that could be retrofitted onto ActivityPub. > The fact that they haven't opened up yet for other nodes makes it clear. That's far too cynical. A federated social network is a really difficult project and there's many good reasons you might want to start with a single node.
  - rglullis 3y ago
    > A federated social network is a really difficult project and there's many good reasons you might want to start with a single node. And yet, Nostr is growing just nicely, with a perfectly reasonable decentralized model. I was a bit involved with Bluesky early discussions. It became clear from the get-go that they were not willing to give a chance to AP. They wanted to have something they can control, top-down. Even if that means reinventing all the different wheels they are doing.
    - TazeTSchnitzel 3y ago
      Nostr isn't ActivityPub either though.
      - rglullis 3y ago
        Not the point. The point is that if Bluesky really has a goal of building a decentralized solution and had seen a fundamental problem with AP, they could work on their alternative while showing how their alternative can scale better. If it they are criticizing AP but their software is as centralized as Twitter, then they are just larping.
grumple 3y ago
> This seems like a thinly disguised jab at people using Bluesky and Threads. It's not disguised, it's the whole point.

rglullis 3y ago

What about the Fediverse flaws that can not be fixed within the context of ActivityPub? BlueSky creation of a separate protocol is an obvious attempt to create a platform where they get to become the gatekeepers of content distribution. The fact that they haven't opened up yet for other nodes makes it clear.

TazeTSchnitzel 3y ago
ActivityPub has effectively become a drop-in replacement for the constellation of older systems (OStatus etc) that the fediverse used to use. That was possible because it didn't require changes in how the nodes in the network relate to eachother. Bluesky on the other hand is trying out a completely different network topology. It's too soon to say if it'll ultimately be better, but if it does succeed, it won't necessarily produce something that could be retrofitted onto ActivityPub. > The fact that they haven't opened up yet for other nodes makes it clear. That's far too cynical. A federated social network is a really difficult project and there's many good reasons you might want to start with a single node.
- rglullis 3y ago
  > A federated social network is a really difficult project and there's many good reasons you might want to start with a single node. And yet, Nostr is growing just nicely, with a perfectly reasonable decentralized model. I was a bit involved with Bluesky early discussions. It became clear from the get-go that they were not willing to give a chance to AP. They wanted to have something they can control, top-down. Even if that means reinventing all the different wheels they are doing.
  - TazeTSchnitzel 3y ago
    Nostr isn't ActivityPub either though.
    - rglullis 3y ago
      Not the point. The point is that if Bluesky really has a goal of building a decentralized solution and had seen a fundamental problem with AP, they could work on their alternative while showing how their alternative can scale better. If it they are criticizing AP but their software is as centralized as Twitter, then they are just larping.

grumple 3y ago

> This seems like a thinly disguised jab at people using Bluesky and Threads. It's not disguised, it's the whole point.