4 ms·

> the only reason most of europe has freedom today and not a german dictatorship is the US in WW2 That thought is the result of decades of successful US propag

> the only reason most of europe has freedom today and not a german dictatorship is the US in WW2 That thought is the result of decades of successful US propaganda. The people who actually lived through WW2 in Europe thought different. This poll [1] asked: "In your opinion, which nation contributed the most to Hitler's defeat?" [1] https://www.les-crises.fr/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/sondage-nation-contribue-defaite-nazis-2.jpg https://www.les-crises.fr/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/sondage...

vasco 3y ago
So you agree that somehow the US has a stranglehold on Europe if they were able to make the continent believe what you say is a lie. Maybe you don't think it comes from WW2 or them having the biggest army, but then what is your explanation? Europe bends over just because? The USA has military bases all over Europe with people and missiles. That started with WW2. How would they not have huge influence on what we do? No european country has a random military base in Ohio or whatever.
- calcifer 3y ago
  > but then what is your explanation? Decades of Holywood propaganda and related American cultural exports. There is a reason the Pentagon gives free access to military equipment to Holywood studios, but only if the military is depicted positively / in a heroic manner.
  - vasco 3y ago
    You think Europe lets the US dictate policy and enforce extradition because of... Hollywood? And not because of the position the US has on the world stage by having the biggest army and the world currency? Because that's the argument I'm making.
    - calcifer 3y ago
      You keep moving goalposts. Your original statement which started this comment chain was that without the US, Europe would be a German dictatorship. That is categorically untrue and is not actually believed by those who survived WW2. I also explained why the perception is changed, even though the facts haven't. From there, you've launched into some unrelated tirade about American military size.
    - undefinedland 3y ago
      In addition to calcifer's arguments, I would suggest you consider that there are multiple aspects of power apart from military. There is financial, economic, cultural, diplomatic and so forth. There is a book called "When Titans Clashed" that may be of interest to you in regards to your statement about "europe has freedom today and not a german dictatorship is the US in WW2."
- josephcsible 3y ago
  > No european country has a random military base in Ohio or whatever. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_overseas_military_bases https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_oversea... says that Germany, Italy, the Netherlands, Singapore (admittedly not European), and the United Kingdom all have military bases in the US.
  - hmm37 3y ago
    Pretty sure training bases aren't the same as a normal "military" base, but rather to have their troops trained by US soldiers.
bavell 3y ago
How many people were asked in each poll and were they all French? Genuinely curious.
- calcifer 3y ago
  Yes, they were all French. 995 people aged 18 and over. The study is here [1]. [1] https://www.ifop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/3025-1-study_file.pdf https://www.ifop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/3025-1-study...

vasco 3y ago

So you agree that somehow the US has a stranglehold on Europe if they were able to make the continent believe what you say is a lie. Maybe you don't think it comes from WW2 or them having the biggest army, but then what is your explanation? Europe bends over just because? The USA has military bases all over Europe with people and missiles. That started with WW2. How would they not have huge influence on what we do? No european country has a random military base in Ohio or whatever.

calcifer 3y ago
> but then what is your explanation? Decades of Holywood propaganda and related American cultural exports. There is a reason the Pentagon gives free access to military equipment to Holywood studios, but only if the military is depicted positively / in a heroic manner.
- vasco 3y ago
  You think Europe lets the US dictate policy and enforce extradition because of... Hollywood? And not because of the position the US has on the world stage by having the biggest army and the world currency? Because that's the argument I'm making.
  - calcifer 3y ago
    You keep moving goalposts. Your original statement which started this comment chain was that without the US, Europe would be a German dictatorship. That is categorically untrue and is not actually believed by those who survived WW2. I also explained why the perception is changed, even though the facts haven't. From there, you've launched into some unrelated tirade about American military size.
  - undefinedland 3y ago
    In addition to calcifer's arguments, I would suggest you consider that there are multiple aspects of power apart from military. There is financial, economic, cultural, diplomatic and so forth. There is a book called "When Titans Clashed" that may be of interest to you in regards to your statement about "europe has freedom today and not a german dictatorship is the US in WW2."
josephcsible 3y ago
> No european country has a random military base in Ohio or whatever. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_overseas_military_bases https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_oversea... says that Germany, Italy, the Netherlands, Singapore (admittedly not European), and the United Kingdom all have military bases in the US.
- hmm37 3y ago
  Pretty sure training bases aren't the same as a normal "military" base, but rather to have their troops trained by US soldiers.

bavell 3y ago

How many people were asked in each poll and were they all French? Genuinely curious.

calcifer 3y ago
Yes, they were all French. 995 people aged 18 and over. The study is here [1]. [1] https://www.ifop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/3025-1-study_file.pdf https://www.ifop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/3025-1-study...