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> Advertising is inherently immoral Why? In principle, advertising is a way to propagate information in a market, trying to match offer with demand. Without a

> Advertising is inherently immoral Why? In principle, advertising is a way to propagate information in a market, trying to match offer with demand. Without any such mechanism, markets would be hugely inefficient (i.e., it would be annoying to find a shop selling what you are looking for, since you would need to visit many before finding one that sells that thing). The problem with ads, like you are saying, is that being scummy and dishonest is by far the most effective way of attracting demand.

jraph 3y ago
You can look things up when you need something, you don't need to wait for an ad to annoy you to discover something. What's more, usually, you hear ads for big players, not the small ones, which are often the most interesting. In particular, hearing about NordVPN every other video is not necessary.
- robertlagrant 3y ago
  Look things up where?
  - jraph 3y ago
    On the internet with a search engine, on a map, etc. Or ask friends / family, actually. That's what I do when I need something I don't know where to find. Before the internet you had the yellow pages, I guess, and word of mouth. In any case, I'm pretty sure I never ever ever heard or saw an ad that made be discover something I was interested in. I don't want to allocate any time during which I passively listen or watch ads in the hope it will lead to some epiphany.
t0bia_s 3y ago
And that is a huge part of problem with sustainability and magnification of problems that would otherwise stay local. PFAS, microplastics, pollution... It's all consequence of overproduction of useless things that are consumed by society manipulated by ads. The product is "ad" itself if it is good. If not, you need extra advertisements. For me it is immoral to consume ads.
- robertlagrant 3y ago
  I think this is a category error. Those bad things aren't driven by ads. Ads drive economies of scale possible if people have heard of your product without word of mouth, which lower prices and help producers understand what people want. Productiveness will sometimes drive things like microplastics, as it's hard to know the effects of doing something new without doing that thing. That's the theoretical response. In practice: how would I sell my car without ads? Would I sit and wait for people to be attracted to it and ask me if it's for sale?
  - t0bia_s 3y ago
    I should specify "corporate product advertisement". Also... You advert a selling of product that is already made and used. I tough about those silly ads for new kind of electronics, cars, junk food, etc. Btw, why are you selling your car? - ...help producers understand what people want. You always need what you don't have and others do. Do you?
    - robertlagrant 3y ago
      > Also... You advert a selling of product that is already made and used. So no one should know about new products for sale, only second hand ones? > You always need what you don't have and others do. Do you? I'm selling it because it doesn't have 7 seats for when we have overseas relatives who can't afford to rent a car when they visit, and its diesel engine is not necessary for my much-reduced weekly mileage. Assuming I want just because others have is extremely shallow.
      - t0bia_s 3y ago
        - So no one should know about new products for sale, only second hand ones? No, I mean advertisement that is made primary for profit and selling things that would otherwise shouldn't be sold. Promoting weak products.
  - skydhash 3y ago
    > That's the theoretical response. In practice: how would I sell my car without ads? You make an announcement that you have a car to sell. Maybe provide some details. I don't think people mind announcement. They mind the intrusion and manipulation. So, I don't mind seeing in the paper that someone has a car to sell. But I absolutely hate when I'm forced to watch that you have the most beautiful car when I'm just loading an article.
kerkeslager 3y ago
> In principle, advertising is a way to propagate information in a market, trying to match offer with demand. No, that's what a Consumer Reports-style review site is. Independent review matches offer with demand. Search engines (not including the ads on search engines) match offer with demand. There's no "matching" with ads: the goal is to jam your product in front of people as much as possible. And in fact there's often no demand to match with. Ads are just rich barging into your attention to beg for more money with lies. > Without any such mechanism, markets would be hugely inefficient (i.e., it would be annoying to find a shop selling what you are looking for, since you would need to visit many before finding one that sells that thing). I'd caution you against trusting anyone who talks about "efficient" without talking about what benefit is being maximized and what cost is being minimized. Ads are efficient in the sense that they help maximize sales for minimum quality of product: that's not a desirable efficiency. If we (consumers) want to maximize quality and minimize cost, then independent review is a much better way to find products.

jraph 3y ago

You can look things up when you need something, you don't need to wait for an ad to annoy you to discover something. What's more, usually, you hear ads for big players, not the small ones, which are often the most interesting. In particular, hearing about NordVPN every other video is not necessary.

robertlagrant 3y ago
Look things up where?
- jraph 3y ago
  On the internet with a search engine, on a map, etc. Or ask friends / family, actually. That's what I do when I need something I don't know where to find. Before the internet you had the yellow pages, I guess, and word of mouth. In any case, I'm pretty sure I never ever ever heard or saw an ad that made be discover something I was interested in. I don't want to allocate any time during which I passively listen or watch ads in the hope it will lead to some epiphany.

t0bia_s 3y ago

And that is a huge part of problem with sustainability and magnification of problems that would otherwise stay local. PFAS, microplastics, pollution... It's all consequence of overproduction of useless things that are consumed by society manipulated by ads. The product is "ad" itself if it is good. If not, you need extra advertisements. For me it is immoral to consume ads.

robertlagrant 3y ago
I think this is a category error. Those bad things aren't driven by ads. Ads drive economies of scale possible if people have heard of your product without word of mouth, which lower prices and help producers understand what people want. Productiveness will sometimes drive things like microplastics, as it's hard to know the effects of doing something new without doing that thing. That's the theoretical response. In practice: how would I sell my car without ads? Would I sit and wait for people to be attracted to it and ask me if it's for sale?
- t0bia_s 3y ago
  I should specify "corporate product advertisement". Also... You advert a selling of product that is already made and used. I tough about those silly ads for new kind of electronics, cars, junk food, etc. Btw, why are you selling your car? - ...help producers understand what people want. You always need what you don't have and others do. Do you?
  - robertlagrant 3y ago
    > Also... You advert a selling of product that is already made and used. So no one should know about new products for sale, only second hand ones? > You always need what you don't have and others do. Do you? I'm selling it because it doesn't have 7 seats for when we have overseas relatives who can't afford to rent a car when they visit, and its diesel engine is not necessary for my much-reduced weekly mileage. Assuming I want just because others have is extremely shallow.
    - t0bia_s 3y ago
      - So no one should know about new products for sale, only second hand ones? No, I mean advertisement that is made primary for profit and selling things that would otherwise shouldn't be sold. Promoting weak products.
- skydhash 3y ago
  > That's the theoretical response. In practice: how would I sell my car without ads? You make an announcement that you have a car to sell. Maybe provide some details. I don't think people mind announcement. They mind the intrusion and manipulation. So, I don't mind seeing in the paper that someone has a car to sell. But I absolutely hate when I'm forced to watch that you have the most beautiful car when I'm just loading an article.

kerkeslager 3y ago

> In principle, advertising is a way to propagate information in a market, trying to match offer with demand. No, that's what a Consumer Reports-style review site is. Independent review matches offer with demand. Search engines (not including the ads on search engines) match offer with demand. There's no "matching" with ads: the goal is to jam your product in front of people as much as possible. And in fact there's often no demand to match with. Ads are just rich barging into your attention to beg for more money with lies. > Without any such mechanism, markets would be hugely inefficient (i.e., it would be annoying to find a shop selling what you are looking for, since you would need to visit many before finding one that sells that thing). I'd caution you against trusting anyone who talks about "efficient" without talking about what benefit is being maximized and what cost is being minimized. Ads are efficient in the sense that they help maximize sales for minimum quality of product: that's not a desirable efficiency. If we (consumers) want to maximize quality and minimize cost, then independent review is a much better way to find products.