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I like the idea, but I’m gonna say that (a) calculus is more than a good challenge and (b) math is actually easy. To understand how things actually work, you n

I like the idea, but I’m gonna say that (a) calculus is more than a good challenge and (b) math is actually easy. To understand how things actually work, you need math, especially calculus. Deep learning? Calculus. Statistics? Calculus. Finance? Calculus. Physics? Calculus. Mech E, robotics, earth science, econ? Calculus. Second, calculus, like all math, is easy. Like that’s the point, it’s the science of simple things. That math is competitive and presented as a cryptic challenge is beside the point — it is designed to make it possible for anyone to reason for themselves and solve problems. The sense of impatience and criticism around math is totally unwarranted and isn’t good for anyone. I get kind of bummed when I see schools spending so much creativity and enthusiasm on art and theater. There really is no reason why science should be thought of as judgmental, difficult and painful, while putting on a play is creative, inviting and fun.

polishdude20 3y ago
Putting on a play is a very human interactive activity. Until math lets you interact with many humans in a rich experience, it won't be put on a pedestal like drama.
TexanFeller 3y ago
It will be amusing if we find out that all the things come in discrete quanta, even space-time, which I hear hasn't been ruled out. Calculus and real numbers might not be sitting as pretty.
- wwarner 3y ago
  There isn’t that much difference btw an integral and a summation.
  - TexanFeller 3y ago
    There are lots of corner cases where the difference matters, like when integrals with finite bounds can go to infinity where a finite sum cannot. Boundary cases and surprise infinities seem to be a common problem problem the theoretical physicists have battled in their theories for the last century.
jimmydddd 3y ago
I saw an article where they asked a bunch of scientists and engineers if they actually used calculus in their professions. None of them did. They used Excel and the R programming language.
- User23 3y ago
  R is a calculus. In fact all programming is reducible to first order predicate calculus. The Leibniz rule is pretty cool.
- lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
  What did they do with Excel and R?
  - jskherman 3y ago
    As a chemical engineering student, it's a whole lot of formulas cobbled together to spit out calculations that would otherwise be done on hand (especially empirical methods that compute estimates where a clean answer is not possible like $\int{\frac{\sin{x}}{x}}$). The formulas usually come from what you study in school (e.g. the Redlich-Kwong equation in Physical Chemistry to estimate the properties of real/non-ideal gases). What's neat is that before computers were popular in the early 20th century, these calculations (mostly empirical equations' iterations) had to be done by hand by engineers. So yeah... you can imagine how tedious it was (especially when you have tiny errors due to humans compounding) yet they were still able to build complex things (like factories!).
    - gmadsen 3y ago
      all those formulas were derived using calculus...
    - User23 3y ago
      Engineers didn’t do those calculations by hand. They were done by “computers” who were mostly youngish women with slide rules.
- 3y ago
m463 3y ago
I've found that some disciplines need calculus, others don't. I've found deeply understanding logic and binary/hex MUCH more important than calculus in my career.
- drewcoo 3y ago
  > deeply understanding logic and binary/hex So . . . logic and number bases? Do tell!
anon-3988 3y ago
>Second, calculus, like all math, is easy. Like that’s the point, it’s the science of simple things. That math is competitive and presented as a cryptic challenge is beside the point — it is designed to make it possible for anyone to reason for themselves and solve problems. The sense of impatience and criticism around math is totally unwarranted and isn’t good for anyone. lol, typical HN answer. Mathematics is not "easy", it is a niche; some people are good at, some are average, some are bad. Expecting every person to be able to do math is folly. People will fail. People already fail at memorizing math concepts and literally just applying said concept by plugging the numbers around. Some people just don't "get" it, I know I don't "get" probability, but is pretty good at other branches of math like group theory and calculus. To some people, deriving derivatives is basically black magic, but to me it's pretty intuitive. Thus, if the world economy relies on people being good at probability then I am screwed. Fortunately for me, the world economy somehow relies on people being good at writing texts on a computer to tell it what to do (programming). I personally think programming is piss easy (its the actual problem being solved that is hard, programming is just knowing how to knock a hammer) However, there are people out there that simply can't program, either because they are not interested or not capable. Perhaps they are good at something else that is not entirely marketable? Is it wrong to be that way? Being humble is one thing, but not realizing one's gift is another.
- meiji163 3y ago
  A better description is "simple", not "easy". "If you do not believe that mathematics is simple, it is only because you do not realize how complicated life is." -von Neumann
- selcuka 3y ago
  > Being humble is one thing, but not realizing one's gift is another. Very true, but this doesn't change the fact that math is actually simple, but it is generally taught so badly that most students can't "get" it. I did a bit of private tutoring back when I was in college (and I'm still doing it for my own children), and every person learns in a different way. It is not always easy to find the right way to convey an idea, but once you find it you can see in the student's eyes how it just clicked. Totally anecdotal, but I once helped someone who "didn't get how percentages work" get a really high (with respect to her previous attempts) GMAT score in maths.
hooande 3y ago
Physics and gravity are behind any kind of predictable motion. But you don't need to understand those things at all to be a successful surfer. Even though surfing is entirely about physics and calculable predictions, performing the act doesn't require any detailed knowledge of either topic. It's the same with calculus and almost everything you mentioned. People can create algorithms, make statistics calculations and financial predictions, build robots, etc. All without any knowledge of calculus of any kind. The skills of all of those things are based on calculus like surfing is based on physics. Related, but not in the sense of practical application. Knowledge of the math that underlies the math that underlies the thing is neither required nor sufficient for actually doing the thing.

polishdude20 3y ago

Putting on a play is a very human interactive activity. Until math lets you interact with many humans in a rich experience, it won't be put on a pedestal like drama.

TexanFeller 3y ago

It will be amusing if we find out that all the things come in discrete quanta, even space-time, which I hear hasn't been ruled out. Calculus and real numbers might not be sitting as pretty.

wwarner 3y ago
There isn’t that much difference btw an integral and a summation.
- TexanFeller 3y ago
  There are lots of corner cases where the difference matters, like when integrals with finite bounds can go to infinity where a finite sum cannot. Boundary cases and surprise infinities seem to be a common problem problem the theoretical physicists have battled in their theories for the last century.

jimmydddd 3y ago

I saw an article where they asked a bunch of scientists and engineers if they actually used calculus in their professions. None of them did. They used Excel and the R programming language.

User23 3y ago
R is a calculus. In fact all programming is reducible to first order predicate calculus. The Leibniz rule is pretty cool.
lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
What did they do with Excel and R?
- jskherman 3y ago
  As a chemical engineering student, it's a whole lot of formulas cobbled together to spit out calculations that would otherwise be done on hand (especially empirical methods that compute estimates where a clean answer is not possible like $\int{\frac{\sin{x}}{x}}$). The formulas usually come from what you study in school (e.g. the Redlich-Kwong equation in Physical Chemistry to estimate the properties of real/non-ideal gases). What's neat is that before computers were popular in the early 20th century, these calculations (mostly empirical equations' iterations) had to be done by hand by engineers. So yeah... you can imagine how tedious it was (especially when you have tiny errors due to humans compounding) yet they were still able to build complex things (like factories!).
  - gmadsen 3y ago
    all those formulas were derived using calculus...
  - User23 3y ago
    Engineers didn’t do those calculations by hand. They were done by “computers” who were mostly youngish women with slide rules.
3y ago

m463 3y ago

I've found that some disciplines need calculus, others don't. I've found deeply understanding logic and binary/hex MUCH more important than calculus in my career.

drewcoo 3y ago
> deeply understanding logic and binary/hex So . . . logic and number bases? Do tell!

anon-3988 3y ago

>Second, calculus, like all math, is easy. Like that’s the point, it’s the science of simple things. That math is competitive and presented as a cryptic challenge is beside the point — it is designed to make it possible for anyone to reason for themselves and solve problems. The sense of impatience and criticism around math is totally unwarranted and isn’t good for anyone. lol, typical HN answer. Mathematics is not "easy", it is a niche; some people are good at, some are average, some are bad. Expecting every person to be able to do math is folly. People will fail. People already fail at memorizing math concepts and literally just applying said concept by plugging the numbers around. Some people just don't "get" it, I know I don't "get" probability, but is pretty good at other branches of math like group theory and calculus. To some people, deriving derivatives is basically black magic, but to me it's pretty intuitive. Thus, if the world economy relies on people being good at probability then I am screwed. Fortunately for me, the world economy somehow relies on people being good at writing texts on a computer to tell it what to do (programming). I personally think programming is piss easy (its the actual problem being solved that is hard, programming is just knowing how to knock a hammer) However, there are people out there that simply can't program, either because they are not interested or not capable. Perhaps they are good at something else that is not entirely marketable? Is it wrong to be that way? Being humble is one thing, but not realizing one's gift is another.

meiji163 3y ago
A better description is "simple", not "easy". "If you do not believe that mathematics is simple, it is only because you do not realize how complicated life is." -von Neumann
selcuka 3y ago
> Being humble is one thing, but not realizing one's gift is another. Very true, but this doesn't change the fact that math is actually simple, but it is generally taught so badly that most students can't "get" it. I did a bit of private tutoring back when I was in college (and I'm still doing it for my own children), and every person learns in a different way. It is not always easy to find the right way to convey an idea, but once you find it you can see in the student's eyes how it just clicked. Totally anecdotal, but I once helped someone who "didn't get how percentages work" get a really high (with respect to her previous attempts) GMAT score in maths.

hooande 3y ago

Physics and gravity are behind any kind of predictable motion. But you don't need to understand those things at all to be a successful surfer. Even though surfing is entirely about physics and calculable predictions, performing the act doesn't require any detailed knowledge of either topic. It's the same with calculus and almost everything you mentioned. People can create algorithms, make statistics calculations and financial predictions, build robots, etc. All without any knowledge of calculus of any kind. The skills of all of those things are based on calculus like surfing is based on physics. Related, but not in the sense of practical application. Knowledge of the math that underlies the math that underlies the thing is neither required nor sufficient for actually doing the thing.