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I seem to read that post completely different to you. The way I read it is that they are complaining that there are too many GUI elements (mainly toolbars), tak

I seem to read that post completely different to you. The way I read it is that they are complaining that there are too many GUI elements (mainly toolbars), taking away screen real estate from the writing canvas. But why optimise for an 800x800 resolution (which would essentially give you lots of empty real estate if you have a higher resolution)? I really don't get this post?

ryandrake 3y ago
It’s 2023. We should not be “optimizing” for any particular resolution, or for any form factor for that matter. I expect to be able to use Product X on a 5k wide screen iMac display without the content being a tiny 4cm column down the center of the screen. I expect to be able to use the same Product X on a low resolution entry level Android device running Firefox without having to zoom to see things. I expect to be able to use Product X while blind, with a screen reader. I expect to be able to use Product X via an API from a terminal running cURL. We have let the visual designers run mad and it is killing software.
- zo1 3y ago
  I think the fix is simple. All new software needs to be done in the absence of UX folk. Seriously. From my side I'm going to continue excluding UX folk from all future development unless it's an explicitly new-user facing app on a mobile device.
  - pantulis 3y ago
    > All new software needs to be done in the absence of UX folk. Seriously. This needs further clarification. What kind of software would that be? I read your previous sentence as "I can do the work UX folk do", but you don't seem to be implying that UX is not important, right?
    - roelschroeven 3y ago
      UX is very important, but the somehow it seems that the result of UX folks getting involved often does not result in a better UX. There have never been UX experts than there are today, yet many people feel the quality of UX is going down instead of up.
      - ryandrake 3y ago
        I wouldn’t throw out the baby with the bath water. There are good and bad “UX folks.” Just like there are good and bad developers. You just need to keep the bad ones away from your project. When you’re looking for a “UX expert” and they are showing you their portfolio, ask them to show how their apps look on a phone in landscape orientation or over a slow dial-up connection, or how their designs work with a screen reader, or for a colorblind user. If they say “oh, that’s a problem for the Accessibility team,” RUN away from that candidate!
        pantulis 3y ago
        > When you’re looking for a “UX expert” and they are showing you their portfolio, ask them ... Also, what was the methodology used to decide the particular UX solution to the problem?
        Sohcahtoa82 3y ago
        I think a better way to put it is that generally, UX experts know what they're doing. But UX experts aren't the ones that actually design the UI, that's for a UI designer, and those folks are wholly unqualified and have zero business actually making UIs because they don't know a god damn thing about good UX. A UI designer is tasked with making a UI beautiful, a concept that is highly subjective. A UX designer is tasked with making the UI functional, which is far less subjective. Guess which person the management takes more input from?
hulitu 3y ago
> But why optimise for an 800x800 resolution (which would essentially give you lots of empty real estate if you have a higher resolution)? I really don't get this post? Because, unless today, the additional space will not be filled with useless hamburger menus but it will be used by the main working area.

ryandrake 3y ago

It’s 2023. We should not be “optimizing” for any particular resolution, or for any form factor for that matter. I expect to be able to use Product X on a 5k wide screen iMac display without the content being a tiny 4cm column down the center of the screen. I expect to be able to use the same Product X on a low resolution entry level Android device running Firefox without having to zoom to see things. I expect to be able to use Product X while blind, with a screen reader. I expect to be able to use Product X via an API from a terminal running cURL. We have let the visual designers run mad and it is killing software.

zo1 3y ago
I think the fix is simple. All new software needs to be done in the absence of UX folk. Seriously. From my side I'm going to continue excluding UX folk from all future development unless it's an explicitly new-user facing app on a mobile device.
- pantulis 3y ago
  > All new software needs to be done in the absence of UX folk. Seriously. This needs further clarification. What kind of software would that be? I read your previous sentence as "I can do the work UX folk do", but you don't seem to be implying that UX is not important, right?
  - roelschroeven 3y ago
    UX is very important, but the somehow it seems that the result of UX folks getting involved often does not result in a better UX. There have never been UX experts than there are today, yet many people feel the quality of UX is going down instead of up.
    - ryandrake 3y ago
      I wouldn’t throw out the baby with the bath water. There are good and bad “UX folks.” Just like there are good and bad developers. You just need to keep the bad ones away from your project. When you’re looking for a “UX expert” and they are showing you their portfolio, ask them to show how their apps look on a phone in landscape orientation or over a slow dial-up connection, or how their designs work with a screen reader, or for a colorblind user. If they say “oh, that’s a problem for the Accessibility team,” RUN away from that candidate!
      - pantulis 3y ago
        > When you’re looking for a “UX expert” and they are showing you their portfolio, ask them ... Also, what was the methodology used to decide the particular UX solution to the problem?
      - Sohcahtoa82 3y ago
        I think a better way to put it is that generally, UX experts know what they're doing. But UX experts aren't the ones that actually design the UI, that's for a UI designer, and those folks are wholly unqualified and have zero business actually making UIs because they don't know a god damn thing about good UX. A UI designer is tasked with making a UI beautiful, a concept that is highly subjective. A UX designer is tasked with making the UI functional, which is far less subjective. Guess which person the management takes more input from?

hulitu 3y ago

> But why optimise for an 800x800 resolution (which would essentially give you lots of empty real estate if you have a higher resolution)? I really don't get this post? Because, unless today, the additional space will not be filled with useless hamburger menus but it will be used by the main working area.