7 ms·

1 host = 1 credit looks like a problem, similar to how it can be hard to build up ratio on well established private torrent trackers. The distribution of credit

by muti 3y ago

1 host = 1 credit looks like a problem, similar to how it can be hard to build up ratio on well established private torrent trackers. The distribution of credits will not be even with many hosts building up credits for some nebulous future trip. How do those actually travelling around earn credits past the first 3 complimentary? Bonus point systems or just ignoring ratio solved this from my pov for trackers, the 1 to 1 ratio stood out as something that would need a solution long term.

xwdv 3y ago
The idea is hosts sell off their excess credits if they don’t want them.
- muti 3y ago
  So it's not free to camp, we'll end up with centralised mega hosters (seedboxes in the tracker analogy) and in practice travelers will be too small time to actually be able earn any credits
  - Nowado 3y ago
    Isn't it beautiful, how new wave of couchsurfing scales into airbnb without having to become a new entity along the way?
  - FollowingTheDao 3y ago
    Agreed, I don’t like this at all. And everyone’s always giving something only just to get something. And it Hass to be monetize and quantized and socialized. Gross.
  - 312c 3y ago
    Its also ripe for abuse; create dummy accounts that use their free stays to give a host credit, then the host sells those credits for real money. On a certain movie tracker some invite selling scum would join via the signup process that used to exist on reddit, cheat a bunch of upload on popular torrents, convert that upload into bonus points, launder the points to their main account through a forum contest where they also gave away BP to innocent users, and buy invites to sell for real $ with the laundered BP. Similarly the dummy camping accounts could make sure to mix in some legit hosts as their free stays by picking hosts that may not be around/able to verify the dummy account stayed at their location (because it didn't).
    - nikanj 3y ago
      I enjoy the irony of complaining about people breaking the rules on a pirate movie tracker.
      - chaosite 3y ago
        pirate movie trackers are notoriously strict about people breaking their rules.
        MichaelZuo 3y ago
        The paradox of piracy?
      - q87b 3y ago
        It's different kinds of rules, you cannot easily compare them. Similarly to how the paradox of tolerance falls apart if you consider tolerance a social contract: https://cdn.rheinneckar.social/media_attachments/files/110/661/477/252/433/162/original/9ff3fd331b638213.png https://cdn.rheinneckar.social/media_attachments/files/110/6...
i_am_jl 3y ago
It seems so obviously flawed that I'm wondering if that isn't a key part of the value proposition. Boondockers and more recently Vanly already provide a very similar service (RV/Van parking on private property), but aren't limited to California and don't have the pseudo-barter system requirement. I'm wondering, is there some sort of California-specific tax/zoning loophole that allows this but doesn't allow nightly rentals ala Vanly or Boondockers? It's the only way that this makes sense to me.
- jmspring 3y ago
  To my knowledge, no.
edgineer 3y ago
The problems associated with this credit system were famously analyzed after the Capitol Hill Babysitting Co-op ran into, and resolved them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitol_Hill_Babysitting_Co-op https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitol_Hill_Babysitting_Co-op
- onlymonkeys 3y ago
  [dead]
- solardev 3y ago
  How were they ultimately resolved? It seems like they created a hyperlocal currency (or time bank[1]) but then ran into market problems of supply and demand, and a bunch of people analyzed it and proposed solutions, but it was unclear what ultimately happened. Plus, at a measly 20 families right now, all in DC, it's unclear whether this model would work for bigger or more heterogenous groups. Probably at a smaller scale, the expectation of reciprocity alone would be enough; at larger scales, "financiers" would probably try to game the system and skew exchange rates. In my (limited) experience, this sort of thing only works when a group is both small enough and homogenous enough that the primary driver is community and mutual respect, not any real sort of economic game theory. At that scale members don't tend to hyper-optimize for individual "wealth" over collective gain (yet). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time-based_currency https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time-based_currency

by muti 3y ago

xwdv 3y ago

The idea is hosts sell off their excess credits if they don’t want them.

muti 3y ago
So it's not free to camp, we'll end up with centralised mega hosters (seedboxes in the tracker analogy) and in practice travelers will be too small time to actually be able earn any credits
- Nowado 3y ago
  Isn't it beautiful, how new wave of couchsurfing scales into airbnb without having to become a new entity along the way?
- FollowingTheDao 3y ago
  Agreed, I don’t like this at all. And everyone’s always giving something only just to get something. And it Hass to be monetize and quantized and socialized. Gross.
- 312c 3y ago
  Its also ripe for abuse; create dummy accounts that use their free stays to give a host credit, then the host sells those credits for real money. On a certain movie tracker some invite selling scum would join via the signup process that used to exist on reddit, cheat a bunch of upload on popular torrents, convert that upload into bonus points, launder the points to their main account through a forum contest where they also gave away BP to innocent users, and buy invites to sell for real $ with the laundered BP. Similarly the dummy camping accounts could make sure to mix in some legit hosts as their free stays by picking hosts that may not be around/able to verify the dummy account stayed at their location (because it didn't).
  - nikanj 3y ago
    I enjoy the irony of complaining about people breaking the rules on a pirate movie tracker.
    - chaosite 3y ago
      pirate movie trackers are notoriously strict about people breaking their rules.
      - MichaelZuo 3y ago
        The paradox of piracy?
    - q87b 3y ago
      It's different kinds of rules, you cannot easily compare them. Similarly to how the paradox of tolerance falls apart if you consider tolerance a social contract: https://cdn.rheinneckar.social/media_attachments/files/110/661/477/252/433/162/original/9ff3fd331b638213.png https://cdn.rheinneckar.social/media_attachments/files/110/6...

i_am_jl 3y ago

It seems so obviously flawed that I'm wondering if that isn't a key part of the value proposition. Boondockers and more recently Vanly already provide a very similar service (RV/Van parking on private property), but aren't limited to California and don't have the pseudo-barter system requirement. I'm wondering, is there some sort of California-specific tax/zoning loophole that allows this but doesn't allow nightly rentals ala Vanly or Boondockers? It's the only way that this makes sense to me.

jmspring 3y ago
To my knowledge, no.

edgineer 3y ago

The problems associated with this credit system were famously analyzed after the Capitol Hill Babysitting Co-op ran into, and resolved them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitol_Hill_Babysitting_Co-op https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitol_Hill_Babysitting_Co-op

onlymonkeys 3y ago
[dead]
solardev 3y ago
How were they ultimately resolved? It seems like they created a hyperlocal currency (or time bank[1]) but then ran into market problems of supply and demand, and a bunch of people analyzed it and proposed solutions, but it was unclear what ultimately happened. Plus, at a measly 20 families right now, all in DC, it's unclear whether this model would work for bigger or more heterogenous groups. Probably at a smaller scale, the expectation of reciprocity alone would be enough; at larger scales, "financiers" would probably try to game the system and skew exchange rates. In my (limited) experience, this sort of thing only works when a group is both small enough and homogenous enough that the primary driver is community and mutual respect, not any real sort of economic game theory. At that scale members don't tend to hyper-optimize for individual "wealth" over collective gain (yet). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time-based_currency https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time-based_currency