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Show HN: Van, truck or car camp for $0 a night
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- gffrd 3y ago> All members are vetted By who? There's literally zero information that would make me trust this: who's running this, how's it backed up, what proof you have that this works. But, cool idea. Love the reciprocity focus. Kind of like couchsurfing, but shinier?
- vuln 3y ago> trust me bro It’s an MVP to capture interest. Simple As.
- gffrd 3y agoSo, they're missing the V then.
- nepthar 3y agoYep, if there are zero members, then the statement "all members are vetted" is mathematically true. Well done.
- actinium226 3y agoIn mathematics we would call this "vacuously true"
- Simon_O_Rourke 3y agoIt's an absolutely lovely idea in theory, but I can see a small proportion of bad-faith actors absolutely ruining the experience for the rest. For example, how do you get overstaying guests to leave, what happens if there's suddenly a deluge of visitors on a holiday weekend and how do you say "you, not you"?
- Reubend 3y agoLooks really interesting! I guess the big disappointment for me was that it's actually a $100 annual subscription. I thought from your title that it would be free.
- solardev 3y agoSo it's kinda like Couchsurfing.com and Warmshowers, but expensive ($100/yr) and only for vanlifers? Interesting. I like the community peer to peer model, but it kinda feels exploitative to put an expensive business layer on top of it. What does the $100/yr provide that Couchsurfing's $30/yr doesn't, aside from a feeling of exclusivity? Or is that the point, to weed out poor vanlifers and allow only rich vacationers to swap hosting with each other?
- sfpotter 3y ago> Or is that the point, to weed out poor vanlifers and allow only rich vacationers to swap hosting with each other? I'm gonna go with "yes" purely based on the website's design.
- solardev 3y agoIt does have that country club, "no need to park with the peasants" vibe to it, doesn't it?
- mrb 3y ago"rich vacationers" ? Most American adults can afford $100/year. Edit: I'll even add: most american adults spend $100 per month, not per year, on frivolous stuff. Fast food. Cable TV. Unnecessary high-end phones (instead of mid-range phones). All these people could definitely afford $100/year.
- kevinsundar 3y agoYou can't use land camp if you don't own a home / property that has parking space and restrooms. At least after your 3 free stays are done.
- mrb 3y agoCorrect, but solardev was criticizing the $100/yr price, specifically.
- solardev 3y agoFor anyone looking for actually free, no strings attached (and no subscription) camping, check https://freecampsites.net/ https://freecampsites.net/ instead. It's a community wiki of free camp sites, usually on federal lands of various sorts (National Forests and BLM lands often have primitive campsites with fire rings and not much else). It's great for travel around national parks, especially. But please do leave no trace, pack out what you bring in. Edit: I should add that much of federally protected lands are free to camp on, within certain limits that I can't remember offhand. Things like no more than X days within a month, must be further than Y from a street or river, may or may not need a fire permit, etc. Even if undocumented and unlabeled on a map, you can typically just pull off the road and camp alongside, perfectly legally. It's part of their intended use, though that's never really made clear to the public. What this website provides isn't the land itself (which is paid for by taxpayers) but curation, so you can easily find places with a good view, cell reception, fire rings, minimal traffic and whatnot. A lot of national lands aren't exactly desirable to camp on even if you're totally within your rights to do so.
- zucked 3y agoEverything you wrote is bang on - please, please, PLEASE: Leave no trace. Haul out your garbage. Don't shoot, shit, or camp within 100 yards of streams, creeks, or rivers. Don't make fire rings where they already exist. Abide by fire restrictions that might vary by county. Stay on existing, marked hiking and motor vehicle trails. As a resident of the West (which has huge swaths of "public" land) I am so tired of folks coming to "camp" on public land and just absolutely trashing the place. We're losing access to land because people can't be bothered to dig proper cat holes for their shit, pick up their trash, and they're just setting up semi-permanent #vanlife outposts. All these great free spots are getting overrun by people who have no common sense and slowly by slowly they're turning into paid, reservable spots.
- jmspring 3y agoAlso, you leave out (which the comment you mentioned does) - please respect local rules. For instance, in Death Valley, you can free camp most anywhere (refer to NPS guidelines) two miles off of a designated roadway.
- Paul_S 3y agoThis could work if it was community run and not for profit. A business running this has the wrong incentives.
- culi 3y agohttps://www.warmshowers.org/ https://www.warmshowers.org/ is a non profit though it's geared towards bicycle tourists. https://freeroam.app/about https://freeroam.app/about is also a 501(c)3 though a bit newer
- cypherpunks01 3y agoCool idea! I suppose Couchsurfing is a bit of a philosophical predecessor here, but with more of an outdoor/camping bent to it.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- halfstar91 3y agoWhat happens if nobody wants to use your spot to stay in? Presumably you never build up credits and can't use the service effectively.
- fishtoaster 3y agoProbably an interesting business challenge. I could see a few options: 1. Add the ability to buy credits. Hurts the "community" aspect, but gets around that problem and acts as a revenue stream. 2. "Joe Smith is a new host! Camp at his place for zero credits in exchange for writing a review!" 3. Just accept that people in undesirable locations don't get to use the tool.
- fishtoaster 3y agoThis has the feel of a site someone set up to gauge interest based on signups, rather than something that actually exists. I've never been quite sure how I feel about those: smart product testing or disingenuous bait-and-switch?
- mtmail 3y agoThat's the new first step for startups: build a landing page, collect email addresses, only then start building a product. Hard to judge from the outside how much already exists (the first big image is a stock photo). https://news.ycombinator.com/showhn.html https://news.ycombinator.com/showhn.html says signup pages and waiting lists are usually off-topic.
- shkkmo 3y agoRights, so if this is only a sign up page for a waiting list, then this post is not allowed as a Show HN
- JimtheCoder 3y ago"disingenuous bait-and-switch?" It's usually done without the actual company name or final "brand", so you wouldn't even know about it. I guess these guys didn't get the memo, if this is actually a "demand gauging" website...
- goodpoint 3y ago> disingenuous bait-and-switch That accounts for 90% of silicon valley products.
- nicpottier 3y agoI'm interested but $100/yr kind of sounds like a lot. Is it free to host? I wouldn't mind building up credits for a road trip later if I didn't have to pay. Also maybe a monthly price would make more sense as I tend to be on the road only for periods at a time. (or maybe even a per-booking fee?) Anyways, yearly sub is kind of a non-starter for me though I like the concept.
- barbazoo 3y ago> I'm interested but $100/yr kind of sounds like a lot. Is it free to host? Sounds like it is... maybe? > Membership is free if you only want to host (great traffic for businesses like breweries)
- benatkin 3y agoIt sounds like too little to avoid hosting people who don't have a place where host. Someone could pretend another non-host user is hosting them and both could use the credits to stay with actual hosts. Or they could host someone in the same place where they're staying that they don't own or rent.
- culi 3y agoit's california only and "every member is vetted". Clicking the sign up button gives you a form to write out an email telling them about yourself. I think it's a "small on purpose" kind of thing
- shkkmo 3y agoI think it's a "doesn't actually exist yet" thing since it has no testimonials, no account creation process, no examples of possible sites, and really just a single page brochure with a "contact us" form.
- benatkin 3y agoYeah I know they plan to vet them. $100 per member doesn't seem like enough. I think to vet them they would want a minimum $200 million investment.
- VoodooJuJu 3y agoNice design. One big thing though, when making an MVP, make sure the Product is actually Minimally Viable, because if it's not, it's just deceiving, which starts you off in a position of negative trust with the prospect. Trust is difficult, sometimes impossible to earn earn back.
- walrus01 3y agoWe've gone from SNL making a skit about "LIVING IN A VAN, DOWN BY THE RIVER" to people on instagram doing #vanlife influencer stuff about how trendy it is to live in a converted van.
- nonrepeating 3y ago#vanlife at least aspires to some level of tidy and conscientious housekeeping. Motivational speaker Matt Foley doesn’t have a string of solar-powered faerie lights adorning his collapsible breakfast nook. He has a clattering drift of beer cans that he can gather up around him for warmth.
- benatkin 3y agoThe difference is it's a van up by the river.
- supportengineer 3y agoGenius! And local too. Take my investment dollars.
- jmspring 3y agoThe van equivalent of couchsurfing.org. I'm going to go with they probably are flaunting local laws as to where people can park.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- i_am_jl 3y agoThe van equivalent of Couchsurfing is Vanly. This is Vanly where the barrier to entry on the platform is owning property in California.
- culi 3y agoYou can couch surf for free. Vanly is hustlers trying to charge $50/night (on the cheap end) for their driveway I think https://freeroam.app/ https://freeroam.app/ or https://boondocking.org/ https://boondocking.org/ or https://www.campendium.com/ https://www.campendium.com/ or https://www.boondockerswelcome.com/ https://www.boondockerswelcome.com/ or even the OP are much closer to "the van equivalent of couchsurfing"
- JimtheCoder 3y ago"No Social Obligations" What does that mean exactly? Or do I want to know...
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- muti 3y ago1 host = 1 credit looks like a problem, similar to how it can be hard to build up ratio on well established private torrent trackers. The distribution of credits will not be even with many hosts building up credits for some nebulous future trip. How do those actually travelling around earn credits past the first 3 complimentary? Bonus point systems or just ignoring ratio solved this from my pov for trackers, the 1 to 1 ratio stood out as something that would need a solution long term.
- xwdv 3y agoThe idea is hosts sell off their excess credits if they don’t want them.
- muti 3y agoSo it's not free to camp, we'll end up with centralised mega hosters (seedboxes in the tracker analogy) and in practice travelers will be too small time to actually be able earn any credits
- Nowado 3y agoIsn't it beautiful, how new wave of couchsurfing scales into airbnb without having to become a new entity along the way?
- FollowingTheDao 3y agoAgreed, I don’t like this at all. And everyone’s always giving something only just to get something. And it Hass to be monetize and quantized and socialized. Gross.
- 312c 3y agoIts also ripe for abuse; create dummy accounts that use their free stays to give a host credit, then the host sells those credits for real money. On a certain movie tracker some invite selling scum would join via the signup process that used to exist on reddit, cheat a bunch of upload on popular torrents, convert that upload into bonus points, launder the points to their main account through a forum contest where they also gave away BP to innocent users, and buy invites to sell for real $ with the laundered BP. Similarly the dummy camping accounts could make sure to mix in some legit hosts as their free stays by picking hosts that may not be around/able to verify the dummy account stayed at their location (because it didn't).
- yuvadam 3y agoI tried to build a community once with just a landing page and a contact form, it'll be hard - borderline impossible - to bootstrap like that. Nice design though.
- mbgerring 3y agoHi, as a former employee of Couchsurfing, I just want to say: it’s great that you’re thinking about revenue and reciprocity upfront.
- culi 3y agowhat is Couchsurfing's revenue model?
- ratg13 3y ago[flagged]
- totallywrong 3y agoLast time I checked the app for events, it pushed you to pay for verification (blue badge a la twitter) so that you'd appear more trustworthy to others.
- janus24 3y agoRight now I can't access any part of the website if I don't pay 15€.
- rambambram 3y agoAs an active host on Couchsurfing, I want to thank you and your former teammates for one of the best initiatives ever. I've been hosting people from all over the world for some time now, and I really like the community! It's bringing me so much joy to host a world traveler from Poland one day, and a transgender Iranian guy on a bicycle trip the next day.
- 1231112315123 3y agoIs Couchsurfing still alive? When they blocked access for free users, my impression (after paying) was that very little of the community remained.
- 3y ago
- impissedoff1 3y agoBoo, sounds like an email harvest
- coding123 3y ago$100? what is this paying for. surely $100 from one user can pay for the RDS instance and hosting for the entire year. boondockers welcome was free for a long time before they introduced a fee. then they were $30 per year, and now $79. What makes you better - a newer website, a shorter domain name? more chic graphics?
- culi 3y agoI tried going to a cheap motel while travelling the other day. The cheapest I could get on a short notice was $80 after taxes and fees. The place had many Yelp reviews yet had the lowest possible score (1.0). I only found this out afterwards. I'd estimate ~50% of the pictures were pics of people's bed bug bites, ~30% were cockroach pictures (one of them was incredibly well-shot. Like they had a macro lens and everything) and the other 20% were misc pictures like mold on the walls and stuff. The place stank right away when I walked in. I ended up checking out the same night and sleeping in my car If you're doing it full-time and you don't have anything to fall back on, you're eventually gonna stay at some crappy motel at least a handful of times. Hard to imagine two such stays are gonna end up being less than $100
- ghuntley 3y agoI've been doing this for the last couple years down here in Australia. Wrote some words over at https://ghuntley.com/freecamping/ https://ghuntley.com/freecamping/ about where to find spots etc.
- pokstad 3y agoSimilar to harvesthosts.com or boondockerswelcome.com
- totallywrong 3y ago$400 per night for a 2-stars hotel? Is that really the case? That sounds absolutely insane, even for most 5-stars.
- jupp0r 3y agoTry to find a hotel less than an hour from Yosemite.
- culi 3y ago- $42/night Yosemite International Hostel (rating: 3.4) - $45/night Moderne Hostel (2-star, rating: 4.1) - $65/night El Dorado Motel (2-star, rating: 4.0) - $84/night Aladdin Inn (3-star, rating: 3.9) - $78/night Country Inn Sonora (2-star, rating: 3.5) ... this is just from google maps. Someone more knowledgeable I'm sure could find even better deals
- jupp0r 3y agoThese are further than 1h away or bunk beds in Hostels (which I wouldn't consider Hotel rooms). Source: I desperately tried to find a hotel there for next weekend.
- xwdv 3y agoWhy not just camp?
- tekla 3y agoSeriously. Yosemitie camping is glamping unless you're actually doing the wilderness.
- jupp0r 3y agoCamping inside the valley is very hard to find too. My personal reason is that I'll be hiking the John Muir Trail for 3 weeks - camping in the wilderness for 20 nights - on Monday and want to have one last night of relative comforts :)
- FpUser 3y agoIn theory it is barter and there is a possibility of taxman muzzle lurking.
- andythemoron 3y agoI was just thinking about a similar idea. Best of luck!
- tapatio 3y agoThis would be a huge liability for the land owner: 1. Slip and falls. 2. Forrest fires. 3. Trashing the place.
- johnnylambada 3y agoHomeowners insurance covers a lot. If you have more than 30 nites (don’t quite me on the number) of stay then you need arider as well.
- jacurtis 3y agoI love paying $100 annually to get something "for free". Jokes aside, I think this concept is cool and I'm not even upset that there is a membership fee to keep people engaged and to support the software component that coordinates this. But $100 per year? This feels like $50 per year TOPS! Really I feel like this should be closer to $20 per year. I think it is going to be tough to get people to pay $100 subscription and then ask them to play host, just to earn the opportunity to get what is essentially free overnight parking at a 1:1 ratio of you providing it to others.
- KennyBlanken 3y agoThen you'll be thrilled to hear about Warmshowers: https://www.warmshowers.org https://www.warmshowers.org Last I checked, there's a one-time $30 fee.
- coding123 3y agoI joined Boondockers Welcome back in 2018 when it was $30 per year. Totally worth it even if I was just going to camp one time (which most new users will do). But this? This is a money grab (as was boondockers welcome) but $100 is a HUGE money grab. I think the owner of this just expected to put this page out and get rich. The submitter didn't even reply to a single person. Total scam I hope no one "signed up".
- interhater 3y agoHow many camper-hosters do you really think there are? Of that TAM how many will actually convert? They definitely aren’t getting rich pal.
- nyx_land 3y agoBusiness model: Uber for yuppies LARPing as poor people
- russellbeattie 3y agoAs someone currently living the #vanlife (involuntarily), a "camp site" is useless without place to pee.
- Dazzler5648 3y agoBeen vanlifing for ten years, I pee in a jar in my van just fine. It's POOOPING that's complicated, many days.
- culi 3y agoIf you can afford it, a gym membership to Anytime Fitness is a great fit. Most locations of any gym, usually 24 hours, private bathrooms with wifi and outlets, place to shower, and hey you can even work out if you're into that
- Dazzler5648 3y agoI rarely live anywhere near a gym with that sort of setup, but sure, that's basic for anyone van dwelling near a city. #remotelife
- ArlenBales 3y agoThere should be a Show HN rule that the OP needs to participate in their thread. Lots of good questions being asked about the legitimacy of this product but the OP is nowhere in sight.
- FollowingTheDao 3y agoThis is great, there is a homeless person as it’s not work for me? Too bad I guess.
- poorbutdebtfree 3y agoCan the homeless or homeless advocates signup?
- culi 3y agoI've worked with a group that tried to allow houseless people to camp on their property. The main thing most people are looking for when homeless is safety. The most common story I hear when talking to houseless people is the "woman who just escaped an abusive relationship" story. Others have dear pets or are even pregnant. The place was literally just a parking lot but it felt safe and that meant a lot to a lot of people. The city labelled it a campground and said it was illegal. We worked out a contract with the city to let us slowly move people and try to find somewhere else for each individual instead of violently kicking everyone out all at once. Despite the contract, cops tried showing up at 5am or other weird hours on multiple occasions to kick everyone out. One of us always had to be on call because the only thing that stopped them was housed people with cameras filming them doing illegal actions. Eventually they got through though and most people lost a lot of their belongings. Even IDs and wallets were taken making it impossible for folks to access other possible services A service like this geared towards houseless people would certainly mean a lot but if it existed (and wanted to continue existing) it could not be this public. Some cities are better than others (Santa Clara has "safe parking places" e.g. but it's only a few dozen spots) but many of our laws (e.g. why a campground costs many thousands more in taxes to run than a motel) are specifically structured to prevent networks like that
- poorbutdebtfree 3y agoYes, we need a dynamic list of private alleyways where trespassing laws are difficult to enforce.
- 1024core 3y ago> Van, truck or tent camp in California's top outdoor destinations for $0 a night. ... plus $100/year. Why is the annual fee mentioned near the bottom of the page?
- KennyBlanken 3y agoBecause Warmshowers membership is $30, once and if they mentioned their service (with a tiny fraction of the users and sites) costs $100/year up front, even more people would leave. It's all about delaying the unpopular bit as much as possible so people sigh and go "well I'm already most of the way through setting up an account..."
- skizm 3y agoPut the credits on a blockchain. Allow hosts to accumulate and sell them. When you're in the VC meeting for this keep using the phrase "blockchain meets the road". Once the VCs run out of money to give you, make sure you give your company a big genesis block and buy some tokens with your personal money. PUMP! Profit. Selling the company before the house of cards comes down is a bonus if you can time it right.
- culi 3y agoboondocking, $80/year for stays, $180/year to also stay at wineries, farms, breweries, etc https://www.boondockerswelcome.com/ https://www.boondockerswelcome.com/ boondocking, community-submitted tips https://boondocking.org/ https://boondocking.org/ camping, parks, hosting, for-profit https://www.campendium.com/ https://www.campendium.com/ nature-loving free campers, 501c3 https://freeroam.app/ https://freeroam.app/ free campsites, community-submitted tips https://freecampsites.net/ https://freecampsites.net/ rv camping membership https://harvesthosts.com/ https://harvesthosts.com/ very bougie/expensive hipster, van life membership and blockchain thing https://www.kift.com/ https://www.kift.com/ hosting, 3 stays free $100/year otherwise, CA only https://www.landcamp.org/ https://www.landcamp.org/ bicycle tourists https://www.warmshowers.org/ https://www.warmshowers.org/ couchsurfing, social network https://www.couchsurfing.com/ https://www.couchsurfing.com/ airbnb for driveways basically, very expensive https://vanly.app/ https://vanly.app/
- cachvico 3y agohttps://www.ioverlander.com/ https://www.ioverlander.com/
- pluto_modadic 3y agoor https://recreation.gov https://recreation.gov :)
- rambambram 3y agohttps://welcometomygarden.org/ https://welcometomygarden.org/
- moneywoes 3y agoDoes this platform cover liability?
- Dazzler5648 3y agoVanagon owners already have a network app (VanAlert) that's free (donation encouraged). We use one another's driveways and tools, and watch out for stolen vans. That feels like "community." This venture feels entirely like something else, like someone trying to make cash off a different type of van/RV dweller. Cringe Not sure I'd partipate, even if I do have property near two national parks!
- tejohnso 3y ago> All you need to provide is a parking spot and restroom access during designated hours Why would restroom access be required for camping? That's not something normally associated with camping, is it? Is my idea of camping that far off?
- johnnylambada 3y agoIf you’re car camping you probably don’t have necessary facilities.
- culi 3y agoI can't remember the last time I've camped at a place without AT LEAST a porta potty. Nobody wants people shitting everywhere and possibly spreading diseases in the soil
- tonymet 3y agocall me cynical but there are two possibilities . one option is it turns into a business and the other into something exploitative like a hookup app (see Couchsurfing )
- johnnylambada 3y ago$100/yr to join a club of fellow California homeowners / home renters who love to camp and are willing to reciprocally allow stays at their home is not bad. Especially if that $100 is used to pre vet users who will behave in a way that will garner 4-5 star reviews consistently.
- iudqnolq 3y agoA big part of the fun for me is being completely alone, practicing map reading, and faffing around as I find my own way. So I Google the name of the forest and the phrase "district map" to identify the ranger district(s) I'm interested in, Google the district name with the phrase "dispersed camping" to read the rules, and then stare at a topo map with an MVUM overlay to decide spots to look. I find this process often identifies better sites (by my preferences at least) than I see online and online listings are not infrequently wrong about the rules. The process from turning on to the first dirt road to camping takes maybe 20 minutes if I'm in a hurry or an hour if I'm optimizing for the perfect spot. If I forgot to refill my water container and need to find a stream that's an extra .1-2hours depending on season and region. If I wanted the actual right answer I'd call a ranger. (The reason I Google is because the USFS and to a lesser extent BLM have awful intra-site navigation. I don't bother asking Google to restrict to the domain because the right usfs page will be at the top anyway. MVUM stands for Motor Vehicle Use Map and indicates where I can drive and, if applicable, which roads I can pull off to camp. Remember that following the MVUM is necessary but not sufficient, you also need to check the dispersed camping section of the appropriate website. You can get MVUM pdfs by googling place + "MVUM" but I prefer the MVUM layer in the app CalTopo)
- locusofself 3y agoThe website says "It's like having a friend-of-a-friend to crash with wherever you go, even on a powder day." I don't know about you, but I have no idea what a "powder day" is. I assumed it meant skiing/snowboarding (ie, powder snow), but the first google result is urbandictionary about snorting drugs. Just my 2c but I would maybe change that.
- bruce511 3y agoI've noticed a trend on HN where people seem to complain about the price of things, even when they are not the target market. Dominant case in point is the long discussion here over the $100 price point. Is this a spill-over of the Open Source ideals many hold? That software, and by extension services should be gratis as well as libre? People point out alternative (free) sites, and so on, as if the price matters. Or more accurately as if its the only thing that matters.
- mock-possum 3y agoGiven the choice between expensive things and cheap things, or cheap things and free things - it’s always better to be given the choice.
- Der_Einzige 3y agoOpen source is software communism, is it any surprise that folks here want actual communism? No, it isn't.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- Fnoord 3y agoBecause the title is misleading. It isn't costing 0 USD. If something costs money, be up front about it. Because a lot of people do not have much money to spend freely, and by saying 0 USD you signal to them, only to get them disappointed later. Its a low blow, really. On the other hand, if a service is expensive, you can be reasonably sure certain types of people will not use such service. Which increases the likelihood of meeting peers of your class. Good for friendship and mating purposes. Case in point: I have fond memories of going to Playa Montroig as a young kid. One rule there was absolute silence after a certain hour. If violated repeatedly, one could get kicked from the site.
- nonameiguess 3y agoWho is the target market here? The members would all be people who own property near popular vacation sites, which presumably well-off people with disposable income. But those people are not looking to travel and then stay in their cars in a stranger's driveway. They can afford hotels and vacation house rentals. This seems like the worst of both worlds. People who don't care about the price can afford better accommodations. People trying to travel on a budget won't have properties worth using as a host and can't even participate. I would guess this maybe targets people wealthy enough to own both property near a popular vacation site and an RV, but who want to travel to other popular vacation sites that don't have nearby RV hookups. It would arguably make sense as an AirBNB for driveways, as in let the hosts and the travelers be different people with very different demographics, but requiring all users to be both doesn't make any sense.
- brenns10 3y ago$100 / year. Since the idea is that you need to host as many times as you camp, that means that you'd be limited to camping only half the year: gotta stay home to host for the other half. So you could only hope to use 180 days, so the honest advertisement would be "at least $0.55 per night, but probably quite a bit more". I guess if you can host several people at once then maybe you could do better?
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- MontgomeryPi2 3y agoIt reminds me of a mooring exchange website I built 20 years ago, where boaters could freely exchange and/or temporarily use each other's moorings. I eventually pulled the plug because harbormasters were complaining about it and it was just consuming time (no monetization). Maybe I should try again with an annual fee ;)