3 ms·

Ok. You know, exists different maps. One type of maps called many islands. On island map many things possible to do only on terrain (island), and some things ju

by simne 3y ago

Ok. You know, exists different maps. One type of maps called many islands. On island map many things possible to do only on terrain (island), and some things just impossible to do on water. In semiconductors, mono-crystal is like islands - it have perfect parts, and have defects, where 10nm will not work at all. People spent lot of time to figure out, what to do with defects, but complete solution for all cases does not exist. Most know solutions, to make modular structure, so parts appear under defects will just disabled by seals (cut by laser). For example, Intel large die could be with 8 cores, but 2-4 will be disabled after testing, and than will marketed 3 types of CPUs - 4,6 cores (they don't like odd numbers, but I know well, marketed 3-cores CPUs). Other solution, to make few Cache parts considering some disable. RAM/Flash chips nearly all now typically made modular, so they have for example 6 parts in design, but marketed chip will have 2-4 working parts. Latest idea, most successfully used by AMD, to use chiplets - they use two (or more) technologies. From first view could consider chiplet as one core or even one part of chip - Cache or HBM or even Flash. As interposer (base) used something like old 45nm (more tolerate for defects) and on it placed one or more 10nm or better chiplets, connected with TSVs (Throw-Silicon-Via). Chiplets could be placed side-by-side or one on other (I hear about 8-level chips, but sure, for heat consideration in AMD CPU/APU used 2-level design). Interposer could be passive (just pads/wires) or active (some silicone elements or even logic/analog modules). Also exists just classical interposer printed boards, but they are very limited. What I want say, performance of your chip will depend, on how well it suited for anti-defects tricks, such as modular design and/or chiplets design. Unfortunately, silicon interposer technology is very young and not mature, just few months ago appear first industry standard, and just now conducted r&d on Open Source interposer tech. So there are not much to read, but silicon interposer will affect all new designs in very dramatic way. As for me, most revolutionary example, joint venture design, Intel CPU with AMD chiplet GPU (Core i7-8809G with Radeon RX Vega M GH graphics ).

chromoblob 3y ago
Thank you. The game analogy is weird, but okay. I already know the basic bits about defects, but not all details you mentioned.
- simne 3y ago
  You are welcome. Ask questions, I'm sure you have, and I could answer many (sure not all).
  - chromoblob 3y ago
    Main question I have that is not minor is how to get funding after I have simulations that show my design's merit. I have no such experience at all.
    - simne 3y ago
      This is impossible to answer, because investors thinking totally other way. Investor want to see MARKET fit. They are reasonable people, but best you can do, give them formula with good foundations, like: "if on January 10, you invest x1 amount of cash, in x2 days will receive product, which x3 number of people will buy for x4 dollars, before end of year". For example, for Arduino-like products, number of potential customers is just about few millions persons, and it have relatively low barriers for new producers. Because of these characteristics of Arduino-like market, there near impossible to make profitable full scale semiconductor business, as you will need to fight your niche vs many other producers. So ALL Arduino businesses, really use "two-legs" business model, or "many legs", where Arduino product is just one income source and exists one or more other powerful income sources. Other example, Amazon Ring. From first view, they are just digital camera business for very specific niche, not very sophisticated technically. But to defend their market from other producers, they registered somewhere about 80 patents, which tightly cover their niche and some nearest neighbors. Really exists many variants of limitations, which could defend your market from other producers, but this is too broad talk, to speak from what you already tell. So, what I still trying to say - you going wrong way, you need to talk with investors on business language, not technical language.
    - simne 3y ago
      Other important thing, nearly all engineers don't understand - good enough service (availability) is more important than design performance. What I mean, imagine, two people created computers. First, created 0.5MIPS, but with excellent service, so people got ready money machine for business, near without outages, lets state something like 99% availability (maximum 14 hours offline per month), which you could just buy when want. Second created 5MIPS (magnitude faster), but cannot produce in quantities, with any problem people must wait 2 weeks or more to got service. Even if second producer marketing his computer with same price as first, but in reality you cannot buy/use it, this means, that second producer will lost his opportunity. This is oversimplified example. In real life appear lot of cases, like Pentium 4, which was technically nightmare, but Intel survive, because have products portfolio, in which P4 was total loss, but others keep company afloat, and because, at the time of P4, from other large CPU vendors, only survived AMD, which was incapable to fill up market, even when Intel fail, so people buy bad P4. Investor want you to prove, that your product will be not just simulation, but that you could someway keep afloat, even in case of huge failure. Second important thing, that you must be ready to scale, if market will grow above expectations. And with semiconductors, this is near impossible in 10nm business, because all Fabs have their own custom solutions to achieve this. Only Intel is legendary, rumors said, they could just copy design to ANY their Fab (not exact, but near to truth, unfortunately also have limitations), and scale near any product on demand. All other manufacturers have extreme troubles when need to "just copy" product to other Fab, they spending months to do this "just copy".

by simne 3y ago

chromoblob 3y ago

Thank you. The game analogy is weird, but okay. I already know the basic bits about defects, but not all details you mentioned.

simne 3y ago
You are welcome. Ask questions, I'm sure you have, and I could answer many (sure not all).
- chromoblob 3y ago
  Main question I have that is not minor is how to get funding after I have simulations that show my design's merit. I have no such experience at all.
  - simne 3y ago
    This is impossible to answer, because investors thinking totally other way. Investor want to see MARKET fit. They are reasonable people, but best you can do, give them formula with good foundations, like: "if on January 10, you invest x1 amount of cash, in x2 days will receive product, which x3 number of people will buy for x4 dollars, before end of year". For example, for Arduino-like products, number of potential customers is just about few millions persons, and it have relatively low barriers for new producers. Because of these characteristics of Arduino-like market, there near impossible to make profitable full scale semiconductor business, as you will need to fight your niche vs many other producers. So ALL Arduino businesses, really use "two-legs" business model, or "many legs", where Arduino product is just one income source and exists one or more other powerful income sources. Other example, Amazon Ring. From first view, they are just digital camera business for very specific niche, not very sophisticated technically. But to defend their market from other producers, they registered somewhere about 80 patents, which tightly cover their niche and some nearest neighbors. Really exists many variants of limitations, which could defend your market from other producers, but this is too broad talk, to speak from what you already tell. So, what I still trying to say - you going wrong way, you need to talk with investors on business language, not technical language.
  - simne 3y ago
    Other important thing, nearly all engineers don't understand - good enough service (availability) is more important than design performance. What I mean, imagine, two people created computers. First, created 0.5MIPS, but with excellent service, so people got ready money machine for business, near without outages, lets state something like 99% availability (maximum 14 hours offline per month), which you could just buy when want. Second created 5MIPS (magnitude faster), but cannot produce in quantities, with any problem people must wait 2 weeks or more to got service. Even if second producer marketing his computer with same price as first, but in reality you cannot buy/use it, this means, that second producer will lost his opportunity. This is oversimplified example. In real life appear lot of cases, like Pentium 4, which was technically nightmare, but Intel survive, because have products portfolio, in which P4 was total loss, but others keep company afloat, and because, at the time of P4, from other large CPU vendors, only survived AMD, which was incapable to fill up market, even when Intel fail, so people buy bad P4. Investor want you to prove, that your product will be not just simulation, but that you could someway keep afloat, even in case of huge failure. Second important thing, that you must be ready to scale, if market will grow above expectations. And with semiconductors, this is near impossible in 10nm business, because all Fabs have their own custom solutions to achieve this. Only Intel is legendary, rumors said, they could just copy design to ANY their Fab (not exact, but near to truth, unfortunately also have limitations), and scale near any product on demand. All other manufacturers have extreme troubles when need to "just copy" product to other Fab, they spending months to do this "just copy".