3 ms·

Straight up, whether or not they currently do (I'm not a lawyer), antics like this one by the airline should constitute false imprisonment (or, more likely, som

Straight up, whether or not they currently do (I'm not a lawyer), antics like this one by the airline should constitute false imprisonment (or, more likely, some marginally lesser charge) with massive civil penalties (I'm fine with tens of thousands per instance as a gentle place to start). A private corporation's goons interrogating a minor in a security room over the kid using a trick to turn airline pricing tricks against the airline seems excessive. If you don't want your pricing tactics used in a way other than how you designed them, maybe design better pricing tactics that don't gouge customers, but ffs, don't lock a kid in a room over it, you absolute monsters.

danesparza 3y ago
Absolutely. The first question you should ask (in no uncertain terms) is: "Am I being detained?" Even with a police officer involved. There are laws about private citizens detaining you (kidnapping laws). There are laws on how long a police officer can detain you. https://law.justia.com/constitution/us/amendment-04/14-detention-short-of-arrest-stop-and-frisk.html https://law.justia.com/constitution/us/amendment-04/14-deten...
- ceejayoz 3y ago
  Sure, but then what? In this case, the answer is "of course not, but if you want to go home on our airline, you talk to us first". Not everyone can eat the cost and disruption of a second (urgent!) ticket, and they know that.
  - klardotsh 3y ago
    Doesn't the airline ticket, per various FAA rules, constitute a requirement for the airline to get you home somehow? They have not, at the time they have suspicion but no evidence/proof/confession, confirmed any violation of TOS, and as far as I understand it, legally speaking, the kid has every right to say "fuck you, you're putting me on that airplane or a comparable one". Maybe my memory is fuzzy here.
    - ceejayoz 3y ago
      No, they can kick you off for a variety of reasons in their Conditions of Carriage. https://www.aa.com/i18n/customer-service/support/conditions-of-carriage.jsp https://www.aa.com/i18n/customer-service/support/conditions-... In this case: > Reservations made to exploit or circumvent fare and ticket rules are prohibited. > Purchasing a ticket without intending to fly all flights to gain lower fares (hidden city ticketing) It's not a court of law, they don't have to do proof beyond a reasonable doubt. https://www.transportation.gov/individuals/aviation-consumer-protection/bumping-oversales https://www.transportation.gov/individuals/aviation-consumer... > An airline can refuse to transport a passenger for the reasons listed in its contract of carriage, a legal agreement between the passenger and airline, so long as the refusal is not discriminatory...
      - klardotsh 3y ago
        Huh. TIL. I'd personally change those laws dramatically, but luckily for the airlines, I'm not realistically considering a career change to being a politician :) Thanks for citing some links, I misunderstood a few things!
BrandoElFollito 3y ago
I am not American so: is it legal for someone else than the police (and similar governmental agencies) to ask you questions and force tout to go somewhere? I can understand that they can "citizen arrest" you until the police comes but that would be it. In France they would do your if they have reasonable suspicion, but only until the police arrives. If you do not want to talk to them you just wait (and if you did not do anything you grab the popcorn to see how this is going to end). I told my children that whatever happens, they just insist on having the police called. They had to use this one and the security company immediately let them go.
- klardotsh 3y ago
  Citizen's arrest only exists if there's reasonable suspicion a proper criminal event has occurred, and conveys no liability protection: if the person "citizen arrested" is found to have not committed a crime, the "arrestor" can be civilly sued for huge sums of money, and potentially criminally charged, themselves (though this is, I understand, uncommon). In general I can't think of a way private interrogations are legal in the US, though the airline will likely claim that the kid was "always free to leave" and get away with this.

danesparza 3y ago

Absolutely. The first question you should ask (in no uncertain terms) is: "Am I being detained?" Even with a police officer involved. There are laws about private citizens detaining you (kidnapping laws). There are laws on how long a police officer can detain you. https://law.justia.com/constitution/us/amendment-04/14-detention-short-of-arrest-stop-and-frisk.html https://law.justia.com/constitution/us/amendment-04/14-deten...

ceejayoz 3y ago
Sure, but then what? In this case, the answer is "of course not, but if you want to go home on our airline, you talk to us first". Not everyone can eat the cost and disruption of a second (urgent!) ticket, and they know that.
- klardotsh 3y ago
  Doesn't the airline ticket, per various FAA rules, constitute a requirement for the airline to get you home somehow? They have not, at the time they have suspicion but no evidence/proof/confession, confirmed any violation of TOS, and as far as I understand it, legally speaking, the kid has every right to say "fuck you, you're putting me on that airplane or a comparable one". Maybe my memory is fuzzy here.
  - ceejayoz 3y ago
    No, they can kick you off for a variety of reasons in their Conditions of Carriage. https://www.aa.com/i18n/customer-service/support/conditions-of-carriage.jsp https://www.aa.com/i18n/customer-service/support/conditions-... In this case: > Reservations made to exploit or circumvent fare and ticket rules are prohibited. > Purchasing a ticket without intending to fly all flights to gain lower fares (hidden city ticketing) It's not a court of law, they don't have to do proof beyond a reasonable doubt. https://www.transportation.gov/individuals/aviation-consumer-protection/bumping-oversales https://www.transportation.gov/individuals/aviation-consumer... > An airline can refuse to transport a passenger for the reasons listed in its contract of carriage, a legal agreement between the passenger and airline, so long as the refusal is not discriminatory...
    - klardotsh 3y ago
      Huh. TIL. I'd personally change those laws dramatically, but luckily for the airlines, I'm not realistically considering a career change to being a politician :) Thanks for citing some links, I misunderstood a few things!

BrandoElFollito 3y ago

I am not American so: is it legal for someone else than the police (and similar governmental agencies) to ask you questions and force tout to go somewhere? I can understand that they can "citizen arrest" you until the police comes but that would be it. In France they would do your if they have reasonable suspicion, but only until the police arrives. If you do not want to talk to them you just wait (and if you did not do anything you grab the popcorn to see how this is going to end). I told my children that whatever happens, they just insist on having the police called. They had to use this one and the security company immediately let them go.

klardotsh 3y ago
Citizen's arrest only exists if there's reasonable suspicion a proper criminal event has occurred, and conveys no liability protection: if the person "citizen arrested" is found to have not committed a crime, the "arrestor" can be civilly sued for huge sums of money, and potentially criminally charged, themselves (though this is, I understand, uncommon). In general I can't think of a way private interrogations are legal in the US, though the airline will likely claim that the kid was "always free to leave" and get away with this.