3 ms·

I'm no sound engineer, but as far as I can tell, the main point of that paper is that some instruments produce harmonics at frequencies greater than 20kHz, not

by amouat 15y ago

I'm no sound engineer, but as far as I can tell, the main point of that paper is that some instruments produce harmonics at frequencies greater than 20kHz, not that these frequencies matter to humans. However, section X references other papers that apparently make this claim. Just because it is difficult to record a triangle does not necessarily mean it is impossible to accurately recreate the sound (to human ears) using 48kHz.

cmer 15y ago
The only "good sounding" triangles you'll hear are those buried in a mix. Alone, it always sounds weird and "muted". EDIT: Listen to the triangle at the beginning of Rush's YYZ. It's an old recording, but it sounds significantly worse than the analog version. It's been digitally mastered some time ago so if it was mastered today, it would probably sound better, but still not great. I heard a rumor that Rush is remastering all their albums "for iTunes" at the moment, so hopefully we'll be able to compare soon!
- TylerE 15y ago
  Not a very good example, because that's a Crotale (A Flat, ~4" cymbal, basically), not a triangle.
  - cmer 15y ago
    Wow! I didn't know that! All these years I was convinced it was a triangle just like pretty much everybody I guess. Thanks :)
    - FrankBooth 15y ago
      It's not like it has been a secret: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YYZ_%28instrumental%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YYZ_%28instrumental%29
glassx 15y ago
> I'm no sound engineer, but as far as I can tell, the main point of that paper is that some instruments produce harmonics at frequencies greater than 20kHz, not that these frequencies matter to humans. However, section X references other papers that apparently make this claim. Yes, you're right. In fact, some of the section X references don't even mention hearing, they talk about "alpha-EEG rhytms" (in this case "listeners explicitly denied that the reproduced sound was affected by the ultra-tweeter") and "bone-conducted ultrasonic hearing" trough the "saccule" ("organ that responds to acceleration and gravity and may be responsible for transduction of sound after destruction of the cochlea"). -- In fact, most of the claims of the article are around the fact that there is energy over 20khz and how it can affect recording process. This is a well known fact, and this is exactly why engineers filter out sub-sonic and super-sonic frequencies, especially today: stuff that you can't hear (or feel) will just suck your headroom and make you lose the loudness war.

by amouat 15y ago

cmer 15y ago

The only "good sounding" triangles you'll hear are those buried in a mix. Alone, it always sounds weird and "muted". EDIT: Listen to the triangle at the beginning of Rush's YYZ. It's an old recording, but it sounds significantly worse than the analog version. It's been digitally mastered some time ago so if it was mastered today, it would probably sound better, but still not great. I heard a rumor that Rush is remastering all their albums "for iTunes" at the moment, so hopefully we'll be able to compare soon!

TylerE 15y ago
Not a very good example, because that's a Crotale (A Flat, ~4" cymbal, basically), not a triangle.
- cmer 15y ago
  Wow! I didn't know that! All these years I was convinced it was a triangle just like pretty much everybody I guess. Thanks :)
  - FrankBooth 15y ago
    It's not like it has been a secret: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YYZ_%28instrumental%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YYZ_%28instrumental%29

glassx 15y ago

> I'm no sound engineer, but as far as I can tell, the main point of that paper is that some instruments produce harmonics at frequencies greater than 20kHz, not that these frequencies matter to humans. However, section X references other papers that apparently make this claim. Yes, you're right. In fact, some of the section X references don't even mention hearing, they talk about "alpha-EEG rhytms" (in this case "listeners explicitly denied that the reproduced sound was affected by the ultra-tweeter") and "bone-conducted ultrasonic hearing" trough the "saccule" ("organ that responds to acceleration and gravity and may be responsible for transduction of sound after destruction of the cochlea"). -- In fact, most of the claims of the article are around the fact that there is energy over 20khz and how it can affect recording process. This is a well known fact, and this is exactly why engineers filter out sub-sonic and super-sonic frequencies, especially today: stuff that you can't hear (or feel) will just suck your headroom and make you lose the loudness war.