3 ms·

I never even use the microphone in my phone. I only talk using headsets and/or car Bluetooth. I wish I knew how to physically and permanently disable it.

DoingIsLearning 3y ago
Fill it with epoxy?
- dylan604 3y ago
  what's the trade-in value after that?
  - boring_twenties 3y ago
    I'm not concerned with that. I bought the phone for $150 on ebay and intend to use it until it becomes unusable; it's a Pixel 4A 5G, the last one with a headphone jack.
plonk 3y ago
Shouldn't be that hard if you have the tools to open it?
astrange 3y ago
A motion sensor in your phone is also a microphone and might be able to pick up speech.
- rl3 3y ago
  >A motion sensor in your phone is also a microphone and might be able to pick up speech. It's also possible to read lips and monitor typing or writing motions using 802.11, so that's another modality. In addition, your phone's baseband could potentially be used for those same purposes given it affords access to an additional spectrum of RF.
  - godelski 3y ago
    I'm not sure these comments help much. The sophistication of these attacks increases a lot as well as the error/noise. Security is never infinite, it is always probabilistic. Mostly it is about putting enough roadblocks in the way of your adversary so that they don't have the resources to attack you (time, money, and/or skill). This is why the discussion of a threat scenario is always critical because that's what bounds this. I'm sure they'd have an easier time hacking your phone to get a view of your screen than it would to pull off either of the above hacks. So, removing the microphones is going to significantly hinder any adversary and lets be honest, unless you're a high profile target that's being attacked by a nation state, this will be far more than sufficient to ward off any would be attackers (including even many nation state attacks). But as far as interesting and what is possible, these comments are that.
    - rl3 3y ago
      >I'm not sure these comments help much. They weren't intended to. That said, I otherwise agree with everything you said. >But as far as interesting and what is possible, these comments are that. Yeah, it's just fun to discuss the theoretical. I'm pretty boring, so I don't personally use any exotic tinfoil precautions. Heck, if I were important I'd probably just not use a phone. Much simpler.
      - godelski 3y ago
        No worries, I mistook the intent of the comments. It is often hard to distinguish people who are stating something because it is fun and they are interested from someone who is stating something where the intent is to indicate that efforts are wasted.
  - astrange 3y ago
    > It's also possible to read lips and monitor typing or writing motions using 802.11, so that's another modality. Doesn't that require the router to cooperate? As in, this is something that was developed to be used on purpose, but it's not very reliable on a random network you don't own. You can see a lot of timing info from network sniffing even if you can't read it of course.
- squarefoot 3y ago
  In a few years all household appliances will be connected, including of course the already connected TVs, digital radios, IoT devices, etc. Adding a cheap and small MEMS microphone to one unused analog input of the appliance CPU would cost pennies and guarantee the manufacturers eternal "gratitude" from 3 government agencies. Think about having just to choose which device in which room to activate.
- boring_twenties 3y ago
  I would love to disable all those sensors
cubefox 3y ago
Reminds me of Snowden doing this. https://youtube.com/watch?v=ucRWyGKBVzo https://youtube.com/watch?v=ucRWyGKBVzo
godelski 3y ago
Your best bet would probably be starting with an iFixit guide[0]. Even if they don't have the exact thing you want to do, some of the guides will just help you learn a lot. The first time I took part a phone I was terrified because they are expensive and I didn't have a lot of money, but I quickly learned how easy it was. It looks much harder than it is, just be patient and go slow (especially when removing the screen). Here's an example guide in how to replace the earpiece on the pixel 7 pro[1]. I chose this because it is a more involved process and because one of the microphones are in that speaker (sorry, gotta disconnect both). It may look complicated, but the number of steps is because of the thoroughness of the guide, not because of complexity. To modify this guide to your goal, all we'd need to do is find where the (other) microphones are. Which for this, that isn't hard since they have to face the outside and Google even tells us[2] (note that there are 3). Not a schematic, but we at least know the location and should be able to reason it out. What also helps in this is a teardown guide, which we can find a video version for this phone here[3], where he does mention the location of the microphones too. I hope this helps. Just be aware that sometimes components are coupled or you may need to do some minor soldering (which in this case, is probably necessary). The good news though is that if you intend to NEVER use the microphones again, then this is much easier because if you do a little damage then it doesn't matter. To remove those surface mounted mics shouldn't be that hard, but again, patience is key. Use the largest (preferably flat tip, like a flathead screwdriver) soldering iron tip you can get in there and just push (since we're not worried about repair, you don't have to be as concerned about heat). [0] https://www.ifixit.com/Guide https://www.ifixit.com/Guide [1] https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Google+Pixel+7+Pro+Earpiece+Speaker+Replacement/154518 https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Google+Pixel+7+Pro+Earpiece+Spe... [2] https://support.google.com/pixelphone/answer/7157629?hl=en#zippy=%2Cpixel-pro https://support.google.com/pixelphone/answer/7157629?hl=en#z... [3] https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/10/pixel-7-pro-teardown-shows-better-cooling-cleaner-layout-than-last-years-model/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/10/pixel-7-pro-teardown...
- boring_twenties 3y ago
  This is awesome, thank you! I am a noob at soldering but I have done a tiny bit before. Maybe I can get this done after all!

DoingIsLearning 3y ago

Fill it with epoxy?

dylan604 3y ago
what's the trade-in value after that?
- boring_twenties 3y ago
  I'm not concerned with that. I bought the phone for $150 on ebay and intend to use it until it becomes unusable; it's a Pixel 4A 5G, the last one with a headphone jack.

plonk 3y ago

Shouldn't be that hard if you have the tools to open it?

astrange 3y ago

A motion sensor in your phone is also a microphone and might be able to pick up speech.

rl3 3y ago
>A motion sensor in your phone is also a microphone and might be able to pick up speech. It's also possible to read lips and monitor typing or writing motions using 802.11, so that's another modality. In addition, your phone's baseband could potentially be used for those same purposes given it affords access to an additional spectrum of RF.
- godelski 3y ago
  I'm not sure these comments help much. The sophistication of these attacks increases a lot as well as the error/noise. Security is never infinite, it is always probabilistic. Mostly it is about putting enough roadblocks in the way of your adversary so that they don't have the resources to attack you (time, money, and/or skill). This is why the discussion of a threat scenario is always critical because that's what bounds this. I'm sure they'd have an easier time hacking your phone to get a view of your screen than it would to pull off either of the above hacks. So, removing the microphones is going to significantly hinder any adversary and lets be honest, unless you're a high profile target that's being attacked by a nation state, this will be far more than sufficient to ward off any would be attackers (including even many nation state attacks). But as far as interesting and what is possible, these comments are that.
  - rl3 3y ago
    >I'm not sure these comments help much. They weren't intended to. That said, I otherwise agree with everything you said. >But as far as interesting and what is possible, these comments are that. Yeah, it's just fun to discuss the theoretical. I'm pretty boring, so I don't personally use any exotic tinfoil precautions. Heck, if I were important I'd probably just not use a phone. Much simpler.
    - godelski 3y ago
      No worries, I mistook the intent of the comments. It is often hard to distinguish people who are stating something because it is fun and they are interested from someone who is stating something where the intent is to indicate that efforts are wasted.
- astrange 3y ago
  > It's also possible to read lips and monitor typing or writing motions using 802.11, so that's another modality. Doesn't that require the router to cooperate? As in, this is something that was developed to be used on purpose, but it's not very reliable on a random network you don't own. You can see a lot of timing info from network sniffing even if you can't read it of course.
squarefoot 3y ago
In a few years all household appliances will be connected, including of course the already connected TVs, digital radios, IoT devices, etc. Adding a cheap and small MEMS microphone to one unused analog input of the appliance CPU would cost pennies and guarantee the manufacturers eternal "gratitude" from 3 government agencies. Think about having just to choose which device in which room to activate.
boring_twenties 3y ago
I would love to disable all those sensors

cubefox 3y ago

Reminds me of Snowden doing this. https://youtube.com/watch?v=ucRWyGKBVzo https://youtube.com/watch?v=ucRWyGKBVzo

godelski 3y ago

Your best bet would probably be starting with an iFixit guide[0]. Even if they don't have the exact thing you want to do, some of the guides will just help you learn a lot. The first time I took part a phone I was terrified because they are expensive and I didn't have a lot of money, but I quickly learned how easy it was. It looks much harder than it is, just be patient and go slow (especially when removing the screen). Here's an example guide in how to replace the earpiece on the pixel 7 pro[1]. I chose this because it is a more involved process and because one of the microphones are in that speaker (sorry, gotta disconnect both). It may look complicated, but the number of steps is because of the thoroughness of the guide, not because of complexity. To modify this guide to your goal, all we'd need to do is find where the (other) microphones are. Which for this, that isn't hard since they have to face the outside and Google even tells us[2] (note that there are 3). Not a schematic, but we at least know the location and should be able to reason it out. What also helps in this is a teardown guide, which we can find a video version for this phone here[3], where he does mention the location of the microphones too. I hope this helps. Just be aware that sometimes components are coupled or you may need to do some minor soldering (which in this case, is probably necessary). The good news though is that if you intend to NEVER use the microphones again, then this is much easier because if you do a little damage then it doesn't matter. To remove those surface mounted mics shouldn't be that hard, but again, patience is key. Use the largest (preferably flat tip, like a flathead screwdriver) soldering iron tip you can get in there and just push (since we're not worried about repair, you don't have to be as concerned about heat). [0] https://www.ifixit.com/Guide https://www.ifixit.com/Guide [1] https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Google+Pixel+7+Pro+Earpiece+Speaker+Replacement/154518 https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Google+Pixel+7+Pro+Earpiece+Spe... [2] https://support.google.com/pixelphone/answer/7157629?hl=en#zippy=%2Cpixel-pro https://support.google.com/pixelphone/answer/7157629?hl=en#z... [3] https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/10/pixel-7-pro-teardown-shows-better-cooling-cleaner-layout-than-last-years-model/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/10/pixel-7-pro-teardown...

boring_twenties 3y ago
This is awesome, thank you! I am a noob at soldering but I have done a tiny bit before. Maybe I can get this done after all!