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“… taken to a security room by American Airlines. There he was interrogated – and forced to buy a new ticket – according to the boy’s father. That’s all becaus

“… taken to a security room by American Airlines. There he was interrogated – and forced to buy a new ticket – according to the boy’s father. That’s all because when he checked in at the ticket counter, the agent saw his North Carolina drivers license, and suspect that the reservation which included a flight from Charlotte to New York was really a throwaway or ‘hidden city’ ticket. In other words, the boy was traveling to Charlotte but had booked a point beyond – in this case, New York, because it was cheaper. And they had no intention of flying all of the segments they’d booked.” Interrogated and forced to buy another ticket because he was suspected of using Skiplagged(he was, but there’s no way the agent knew). Airports are a trip - full of low-barrier to entry jobs with way too much power.

onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago
> Airports are a trip - full of low-barrier to entry jobs with way too much power. I doubt the person cared. This is probably some quota they have to hit - enforced by the company - not the person power tripping.
klardotsh 3y ago
Straight up, whether or not they currently do (I'm not a lawyer), antics like this one by the airline should constitute false imprisonment (or, more likely, some marginally lesser charge) with massive civil penalties (I'm fine with tens of thousands per instance as a gentle place to start). A private corporation's goons interrogating a minor in a security room over the kid using a trick to turn airline pricing tricks against the airline seems excessive. If you don't want your pricing tactics used in a way other than how you designed them, maybe design better pricing tactics that don't gouge customers, but ffs, don't lock a kid in a room over it, you absolute monsters.
- danesparza 3y ago
  Absolutely. The first question you should ask (in no uncertain terms) is: "Am I being detained?" Even with a police officer involved. There are laws about private citizens detaining you (kidnapping laws). There are laws on how long a police officer can detain you. https://law.justia.com/constitution/us/amendment-04/14-detention-short-of-arrest-stop-and-frisk.html https://law.justia.com/constitution/us/amendment-04/14-deten...
  - ceejayoz 3y ago
    Sure, but then what? In this case, the answer is "of course not, but if you want to go home on our airline, you talk to us first". Not everyone can eat the cost and disruption of a second (urgent!) ticket, and they know that.
    - klardotsh 3y ago
      Doesn't the airline ticket, per various FAA rules, constitute a requirement for the airline to get you home somehow? They have not, at the time they have suspicion but no evidence/proof/confession, confirmed any violation of TOS, and as far as I understand it, legally speaking, the kid has every right to say "fuck you, you're putting me on that airplane or a comparable one". Maybe my memory is fuzzy here.
      - ceejayoz 3y ago
        No, they can kick you off for a variety of reasons in their Conditions of Carriage. https://www.aa.com/i18n/customer-service/support/conditions-of-carriage.jsp https://www.aa.com/i18n/customer-service/support/conditions-... In this case: > Reservations made to exploit or circumvent fare and ticket rules are prohibited. > Purchasing a ticket without intending to fly all flights to gain lower fares (hidden city ticketing) It's not a court of law, they don't have to do proof beyond a reasonable doubt. https://www.transportation.gov/individuals/aviation-consumer-protection/bumping-oversales https://www.transportation.gov/individuals/aviation-consumer... > An airline can refuse to transport a passenger for the reasons listed in its contract of carriage, a legal agreement between the passenger and airline, so long as the refusal is not discriminatory...
        klardotsh 3y ago
        Huh. TIL. I'd personally change those laws dramatically, but luckily for the airlines, I'm not realistically considering a career change to being a politician :) Thanks for citing some links, I misunderstood a few things!
- BrandoElFollito 3y ago
  I am not American so: is it legal for someone else than the police (and similar governmental agencies) to ask you questions and force tout to go somewhere? I can understand that they can "citizen arrest" you until the police comes but that would be it. In France they would do your if they have reasonable suspicion, but only until the police arrives. If you do not want to talk to them you just wait (and if you did not do anything you grab the popcorn to see how this is going to end). I told my children that whatever happens, they just insist on having the police called. They had to use this one and the security company immediately let them go.
  - klardotsh 3y ago
    Citizen's arrest only exists if there's reasonable suspicion a proper criminal event has occurred, and conveys no liability protection: if the person "citizen arrested" is found to have not committed a crime, the "arrestor" can be civilly sued for huge sums of money, and potentially criminally charged, themselves (though this is, I understand, uncommon). In general I can't think of a way private interrogations are legal in the US, though the airline will likely claim that the kid was "always free to leave" and get away with this.
mitchdoogle 3y ago
Why the fuck a low level agent at a counter would even care about this is beyond me.
- cfeduke 3y ago
  My best guess here is promotion material or some sort of internal campaign with an associated bonus for nabbing policy violators.
- samstave 3y ago
  Lead paint and lead in gasoline is a helluva drug, thats why.
- weaksauce 3y ago
  maybe they are incentivized via extra money to detect this? or more probable is a simple power trip/revenge by someone that gets yelled at a lot by angry passengers.
- pengaru 3y ago
  > Why the fuck a low level agent at a counter would even care about this is beyond me. You've never met a peon on a power trip? Have you never interacted with American police?
- FireBeyond 3y ago
  "The lower the stakes, the higher the fighting."
- CPLX 3y ago
  Not in the article but it’s a reasonable guess that the computer had flagged the reservation in some way and there was an alert or note on check in.
floomk 3y ago
Why do these companies have the right to detain someone?
- ceejayoz 3y ago
  They don't. You're free to leave the airport, forfeit your flight, and be banned from the airline. They are, of course, not going to go out of your way to remind you of that right when they say "please come with us".
- awb 3y ago
  They don’t. If a non-law officer says “come with me”, you don’t have to, but people do it anyway.
Arch-TK 3y ago
Interrogated successfully. He admitted it. But the whole thing is just coercion. Sounds more like something the mafia would do than an airline. But then again, this is America so maybe the mafia is how airlines got started.
grecy 3y ago
> “… taken to a security room by American Airlines. There he was interrogated – and forced to buy a new ticket I find it staggering a corporation has the ability to detain and interrogate a citizen who bought a product from them and dared to use it. What on earth is going on here. Imagine if you were at the mall and Apple Store employees tried to drag you into a back room because you bought a laptop from them that they suspect you'll use to try and decrypt things they don't want you to.
- ceejayoz 3y ago
  Apple could say "if you don't come to the back room, we'll never sell you another Macbook, and we'll delete all of your iCloud stuff right now". Quite a few folks would find that a compelling reason to go have said discussion. They can't prevent you from leaving, but they can apply consequences if you do.
  - COGlory 3y ago
    What if Apple said "if you don't give is $500 cash, we're going never sell you another MacBook". Is that not extortion? I think context matters a lot more here than people think. They had no evidence he intended to get off at Charlotte. This was classic coersion and extortion. This was not a contract negotiation, or even a contract dispute. Both parties were wilfully entered into a contract, that was being upheld, with no proof it wasn't going to be, until after the coercion.
    - ceejayoz 3y ago
      No, that’s not extortion. Costco already does that exact thing with their $60 membership.
      - COGlory 3y ago
        No, because Costco doesn't kick you out until after you've transgressed the contract.
ratg13 3y ago
>forced to buy another ticket because he was suspected of using Skiplagged It doesn't matter if he used skiplagged or not.. using skiplagged to book tickets is not against AA policy. He was suspected of planning on not using his second leg ticket. That is to say, the airline punished him before he did anything wrong, which is the part we should be discussing.
steve76 3y ago
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onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago

> Airports are a trip - full of low-barrier to entry jobs with way too much power. I doubt the person cared. This is probably some quota they have to hit - enforced by the company - not the person power tripping.

klardotsh 3y ago

Straight up, whether or not they currently do (I'm not a lawyer), antics like this one by the airline should constitute false imprisonment (or, more likely, some marginally lesser charge) with massive civil penalties (I'm fine with tens of thousands per instance as a gentle place to start). A private corporation's goons interrogating a minor in a security room over the kid using a trick to turn airline pricing tricks against the airline seems excessive. If you don't want your pricing tactics used in a way other than how you designed them, maybe design better pricing tactics that don't gouge customers, but ffs, don't lock a kid in a room over it, you absolute monsters.

danesparza 3y ago
Absolutely. The first question you should ask (in no uncertain terms) is: "Am I being detained?" Even with a police officer involved. There are laws about private citizens detaining you (kidnapping laws). There are laws on how long a police officer can detain you. https://law.justia.com/constitution/us/amendment-04/14-detention-short-of-arrest-stop-and-frisk.html https://law.justia.com/constitution/us/amendment-04/14-deten...
- ceejayoz 3y ago
  Sure, but then what? In this case, the answer is "of course not, but if you want to go home on our airline, you talk to us first". Not everyone can eat the cost and disruption of a second (urgent!) ticket, and they know that.
  - klardotsh 3y ago
    Doesn't the airline ticket, per various FAA rules, constitute a requirement for the airline to get you home somehow? They have not, at the time they have suspicion but no evidence/proof/confession, confirmed any violation of TOS, and as far as I understand it, legally speaking, the kid has every right to say "fuck you, you're putting me on that airplane or a comparable one". Maybe my memory is fuzzy here.
    - ceejayoz 3y ago
      No, they can kick you off for a variety of reasons in their Conditions of Carriage. https://www.aa.com/i18n/customer-service/support/conditions-of-carriage.jsp https://www.aa.com/i18n/customer-service/support/conditions-... In this case: > Reservations made to exploit or circumvent fare and ticket rules are prohibited. > Purchasing a ticket without intending to fly all flights to gain lower fares (hidden city ticketing) It's not a court of law, they don't have to do proof beyond a reasonable doubt. https://www.transportation.gov/individuals/aviation-consumer-protection/bumping-oversales https://www.transportation.gov/individuals/aviation-consumer... > An airline can refuse to transport a passenger for the reasons listed in its contract of carriage, a legal agreement between the passenger and airline, so long as the refusal is not discriminatory...
      - klardotsh 3y ago
        Huh. TIL. I'd personally change those laws dramatically, but luckily for the airlines, I'm not realistically considering a career change to being a politician :) Thanks for citing some links, I misunderstood a few things!
BrandoElFollito 3y ago
I am not American so: is it legal for someone else than the police (and similar governmental agencies) to ask you questions and force tout to go somewhere? I can understand that they can "citizen arrest" you until the police comes but that would be it. In France they would do your if they have reasonable suspicion, but only until the police arrives. If you do not want to talk to them you just wait (and if you did not do anything you grab the popcorn to see how this is going to end). I told my children that whatever happens, they just insist on having the police called. They had to use this one and the security company immediately let them go.
- klardotsh 3y ago
  Citizen's arrest only exists if there's reasonable suspicion a proper criminal event has occurred, and conveys no liability protection: if the person "citizen arrested" is found to have not committed a crime, the "arrestor" can be civilly sued for huge sums of money, and potentially criminally charged, themselves (though this is, I understand, uncommon). In general I can't think of a way private interrogations are legal in the US, though the airline will likely claim that the kid was "always free to leave" and get away with this.

mitchdoogle 3y ago

Why the fuck a low level agent at a counter would even care about this is beyond me.

cfeduke 3y ago
My best guess here is promotion material or some sort of internal campaign with an associated bonus for nabbing policy violators.
samstave 3y ago
Lead paint and lead in gasoline is a helluva drug, thats why.
weaksauce 3y ago
maybe they are incentivized via extra money to detect this? or more probable is a simple power trip/revenge by someone that gets yelled at a lot by angry passengers.
pengaru 3y ago
> Why the fuck a low level agent at a counter would even care about this is beyond me. You've never met a peon on a power trip? Have you never interacted with American police?
FireBeyond 3y ago
"The lower the stakes, the higher the fighting."
CPLX 3y ago
Not in the article but it’s a reasonable guess that the computer had flagged the reservation in some way and there was an alert or note on check in.

floomk 3y ago

Why do these companies have the right to detain someone?

ceejayoz 3y ago
They don't. You're free to leave the airport, forfeit your flight, and be banned from the airline. They are, of course, not going to go out of your way to remind you of that right when they say "please come with us".
awb 3y ago
They don’t. If a non-law officer says “come with me”, you don’t have to, but people do it anyway.

Arch-TK 3y ago

Interrogated successfully. He admitted it. But the whole thing is just coercion. Sounds more like something the mafia would do than an airline. But then again, this is America so maybe the mafia is how airlines got started.

grecy 3y ago

> “… taken to a security room by American Airlines. There he was interrogated – and forced to buy a new ticket I find it staggering a corporation has the ability to detain and interrogate a citizen who bought a product from them and dared to use it. What on earth is going on here. Imagine if you were at the mall and Apple Store employees tried to drag you into a back room because you bought a laptop from them that they suspect you'll use to try and decrypt things they don't want you to.

ceejayoz 3y ago
Apple could say "if you don't come to the back room, we'll never sell you another Macbook, and we'll delete all of your iCloud stuff right now". Quite a few folks would find that a compelling reason to go have said discussion. They can't prevent you from leaving, but they can apply consequences if you do.
- COGlory 3y ago
  What if Apple said "if you don't give is $500 cash, we're going never sell you another MacBook". Is that not extortion? I think context matters a lot more here than people think. They had no evidence he intended to get off at Charlotte. This was classic coersion and extortion. This was not a contract negotiation, or even a contract dispute. Both parties were wilfully entered into a contract, that was being upheld, with no proof it wasn't going to be, until after the coercion.
  - ceejayoz 3y ago
    No, that’s not extortion. Costco already does that exact thing with their $60 membership.
    - COGlory 3y ago
      No, because Costco doesn't kick you out until after you've transgressed the contract.

ratg13 3y ago

>forced to buy another ticket because he was suspected of using Skiplagged It doesn't matter if he used skiplagged or not.. using skiplagged to book tickets is not against AA policy. He was suspected of planning on not using his second leg ticket. That is to say, the airline punished him before he did anything wrong, which is the part we should be discussing.

steve76 3y ago

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