6 ms·

I just wish there was only one connector. Either HDMI or DP. I don't care.

by BadBadJellyBean 3y ago

eviks 3y ago
Why don't you care if it's a worse one?
jayd16 3y ago
It'll be the USB-C port.
- FinnKuhn 3y ago
  and USB-C allows the transmission of displayport over USB-C
  - jsheard 3y ago
    It also allows the transmission of HDMI over USB-C, so you still have two competing standards
    - hadrien01 3y ago
      There's also Thunderbolt over USB-C that does DisplayPort, but it doesn't support all the same versions as DisplayPort over USB-C. And there's also USB 4 but I don't know/understand if it changes anything.
      - masklinn 3y ago
        I think the most applicable bit is that USB4 adds tunneling modes, aside from alternate mode. I'm not entirely clear, but from my understanding alternate mode means the physical connection gets switched over, while tunneling means the tunneled data is sent over USB (so the communication on the wire is USB all along, you get nesting).
        jsmith45 3y ago
        This is essentially correct, although the encapsulation format is really the Thunderbolt encapsulation format, which is only USB in that it is now officially defined in the USB4 specification. USB4 hubs/docks for example, need to have the ability to translate from encapsulated DisplayPort to alternate mode for its downstream ports. USB4 hosts need to support both encapsulated and alternate modes in the downstream ports. The idea is that if a display device does not want to implement any other non USB 2.0 peripherals (2.0 has dedicated lines so it can support those), it can implement only alternate mode, (and not need to support the complexities of encapsulating USB4), plus all USB4 hosts needing to support DisplayPort means you know you can connect such a screen to any USB4 device and have it work (although supporting multiple screens like this is optional). One thing to not though is that DisplayPort alternate mode has the option of reversing the device->host wires of USB-C lanes and thus get 4 lanes of host->device data, for 80Gbps at Gen 3 speeds if using both lanes. USB4 V1.0 does not support lane reversal, and USB4 V2.0 can reverse only one bidirectional lane, since it still needs to support device->host data. I think this lane reversal is only possible when using the new new Gen 4 speeds, which provided 80Gbps symmetric, or 120/40 Gbps asymmetric.
    - vel0city 3y ago
      It allows it, but can you actually buy any products for it? https://www.notebookcheck.net/The-demise-of-HDMI-over-USB-C-Alt-Mode-and-more-power-in-cables.680552.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/The-demise-of-HDMI-over-USB-C-... > True USB-C to HDMI adapters are no longer going to be a thing. The HDMI Alt Mode is more or less history, and DisplayPort has won. Notebookcheck spoke to HDMI LA and the USB-IF about it. > HDMI LA said that it doesn't know of a single adapter that has ever been produced. Similarly, at the USB Implementers Forum (USB-IF), people who are familiar with the certification process have yet to see a true USB-C to HDMI adapter.
      - bandrami 3y ago
        There's an oscilloscope screen that does the conversion in software and was the bane of my existence last year.
      - ianburrell 3y ago
        There is also MHL alt mode. The HDMI alt mode was horrible because it used the whole USB-C cable as HDMI cable preventing any other users. MHL is HDMI but over a single pair. My understanding is that all the USB-C to HDMI adapters are using DisplayPort because that is more widely supported by devices. And the conversion chips are just as cheap as MHL to HDMI.
      - mr_toad 3y ago
        > have yet to see a true USB-C to HDMI adapter Not sure what this article means. I have a USB-C to HDMI adapter (made by Apple) and a USB-C to HDMI cable and both work.
        ThatPlayer 3y ago
        The article talks about how adapters like yours use the DisplayPort Alt Mode protocol and then have a DP to HDMI adapter integrated. Rather than implementing the HDMI Alt Mode protocol which also works over USB-C.
    - jdiff 3y ago
      The article mentions the death of HDMI altmode. Is it actually widely supported?
      - jsheard 3y ago
        It seems not, I missed that HDMI altmode is still stuck at HDMI 1.4 and they're not making any attempt to bring it up to HDMI 2.0. DisplayPort indeed won in that case.
    - Zekio 3y ago
      no vendors implemented it, so whenever you are currently doing hdmi over usb-c it is actually hdmi over dp over usb-c
      - johnwalkr 3y ago
        Which is fine and should stay well-supported because HDMI is also here to stay. The trend for TVs is to include HDMI ports but no displayports.
    - babypuncher 3y ago
      The problem is these two competing standards solve overlapping but distinct problem sets. DisplayPort was designed to be used for computer monitors, while HDMI was designed for home theaters. This may not seem like a very meaningful distinction to most people, but it would become readily apparent to anyone trying to design a home theater around DisplayPort instead of HDMI. Off the top of my head, DisplayPort lacks any equivalents for ARC, Auto Lipsync, and CEC. Odds are your home theater makes use of at least two of these features, even if you don't realize it.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
- Salgat 3y ago
  DisplayPort and HDMI's max length is 15m, compared to USB 3.1's 3m.
  - jsheard 3y ago
    That very much depends on how much bandwidth you're pushing through the cable, older versions of HDMI could tolerate long cable runs but HDMI 2.1 is also limited to about 3m unless you use an expensive active optical cable. DisplayPort 2.0/2.1 is taking forever to come to market but it's going to be similarly limited in its high bandwidth modes when it does arrive.
    - puzzlingcaptcha 3y ago
      40G FRL5 (4K @ 144Hz) seems to work just fine for me with a 8m HDMI 2.1-certified cable (copper). But I had trouble finding longer ones from the same vendor which makes me suspect it is getting close to the limit.
    - latchkey 3y ago
      They aren't that expensive... 100' is $72 on Amazon. https://www.amazon.com/Highwings-48Gbps-Dynamic-Compatible-Desktop/dp/B0B5GZ4KDJ/ref=dp_prsubs_sccl_3/145-0589360-0830529 https://www.amazon.com/Highwings-48Gbps-Dynamic-Compatible-D...
- masklinn 3y ago
  For laptops it's pretty clearly USB-C with DP alt mode, just way too convenient to use a display as a charging hub. Desktop CG manufacturers don't care and it doesn't really drive sales (NVidia has completely removed it, and AMD's tends to be pretty buggy, it's really just DP over a USB-C port) so you need conversion add-in cards (usually from your mobo manufacturer). Also display manufacturers, standard connectivity seems to be 2xHDMI 1xDP and a USB-C if you're lucky (with a few cool oddballs providing 2xDP 1xHDMI instead). Pretty hard to do all-USB if that means you can't plug more than one machine to your display.
  - immibis 3y ago
    Many connectors in one. Is the video output the left port or the right one? How about the charging port?
    - masklinn 3y ago
      Just make all ports fully capable?
      - immibis 3y ago
        You want the laptop to have 8 GPUs just in case someone plugs a display into every port?
        jacquesm 3y ago
        That's (1) a strawman and (2) what do you care what other people want to do with their computers?
        immibis 3y ago
        I think very few people will buy the laptop with 8 GPUs because it will be expensive. It's not a strawman - it's what you asked for. Or what did you mean instead?
- _ea1k 3y ago
  I just wish the Google Pixel line supported display out over USB-C.
  - dawidpotocki 3y ago
    According to the recent leaks, Pixel 8 line will have DP out. So your wish might come true.
- EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 3y ago
  I recently switched DisplayPort connecting my laptop to the monitor for USB-C, didn't see any difference, except now I get video (4kx60hz, max for my monitor), audio, can connect mouse and keyboard directly to the monitor, and the cable is thinner and lighter. Am I missing on something?
  - deergomoo 3y ago
    Don’t forget power delivery! Having a truly one-cable docking setup is a godsend if you need to switch between devices regularly.
- BadBadJellyBean 3y ago
  That's okay as well as long as it's consistent
mikepurvis 3y ago
I've always been surprised there aren't more receptacles out there that accept either a DisplayPort or HDMI plug. I've only seen it on one motherboard, but in retrospect, it seems obvious that the DisplayPort plug was designed to facilitate such a thing.
- yonatan8070 3y ago
  Do you happen to know what the model of the motherboard was? I've never heard of a receptacle that accepts both HDMI and DP
  - mikepurvis 3y ago
    Unfortunately I don't, and it's a tricky thing to Google for, but I believe it was something industrial where space was at a premium (I work in robotics).
- Kirby64 3y ago
  Are you sure you're not thinking of DP++ ? https://www.kensington.com/news/docking-connectivity-blog/difference-between-dp-and-dual-mode-display-video-ports/# https://www.kensington.com/news/docking-connectivity-blog/di... Its a displayport connector, but the port itself can become an HDMI or DVI port purely with a passive adapter.
bluedino 3y ago
Oh, but there's a third. MiniDP. I have a pile of useless cables/adapters now, since Apple started using them but replaced them with USB-C back in 2015.
- cassianoleal 3y ago
  There is also mini and micro HDMI. https://www.howtogeek.com/745530/hdmi-vs-mini-hdmi-vs-micro-hdmi-whats-the-difference/ https://www.howtogeek.com/745530/hdmi-vs-mini-hdmi-vs-micro-...
- CyberDildonics 3y ago
  Oh, but that's not a different video interface.

I just wish there was only one connector. Either HDMI or DP. I don't care.

eviks 3y ago

Why don't you care if it's a worse one?

jayd16 3y ago

It'll be the USB-C port.

FinnKuhn 3y ago
and USB-C allows the transmission of displayport over USB-C
- jsheard 3y ago
  It also allows the transmission of HDMI over USB-C, so you still have two competing standards
  - hadrien01 3y ago
    There's also Thunderbolt over USB-C that does DisplayPort, but it doesn't support all the same versions as DisplayPort over USB-C. And there's also USB 4 but I don't know/understand if it changes anything.
    - masklinn 3y ago
      I think the most applicable bit is that USB4 adds tunneling modes, aside from alternate mode. I'm not entirely clear, but from my understanding alternate mode means the physical connection gets switched over, while tunneling means the tunneled data is sent over USB (so the communication on the wire is USB all along, you get nesting).
      - jsmith45 3y ago
        This is essentially correct, although the encapsulation format is really the Thunderbolt encapsulation format, which is only USB in that it is now officially defined in the USB4 specification. USB4 hubs/docks for example, need to have the ability to translate from encapsulated DisplayPort to alternate mode for its downstream ports. USB4 hosts need to support both encapsulated and alternate modes in the downstream ports. The idea is that if a display device does not want to implement any other non USB 2.0 peripherals (2.0 has dedicated lines so it can support those), it can implement only alternate mode, (and not need to support the complexities of encapsulating USB4), plus all USB4 hosts needing to support DisplayPort means you know you can connect such a screen to any USB4 device and have it work (although supporting multiple screens like this is optional). One thing to not though is that DisplayPort alternate mode has the option of reversing the device->host wires of USB-C lanes and thus get 4 lanes of host->device data, for 80Gbps at Gen 3 speeds if using both lanes. USB4 V1.0 does not support lane reversal, and USB4 V2.0 can reverse only one bidirectional lane, since it still needs to support device->host data. I think this lane reversal is only possible when using the new new Gen 4 speeds, which provided 80Gbps symmetric, or 120/40 Gbps asymmetric.
  - vel0city 3y ago
    It allows it, but can you actually buy any products for it? https://www.notebookcheck.net/The-demise-of-HDMI-over-USB-C-Alt-Mode-and-more-power-in-cables.680552.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/The-demise-of-HDMI-over-USB-C-... > True USB-C to HDMI adapters are no longer going to be a thing. The HDMI Alt Mode is more or less history, and DisplayPort has won. Notebookcheck spoke to HDMI LA and the USB-IF about it. > HDMI LA said that it doesn't know of a single adapter that has ever been produced. Similarly, at the USB Implementers Forum (USB-IF), people who are familiar with the certification process have yet to see a true USB-C to HDMI adapter.
    - bandrami 3y ago
      There's an oscilloscope screen that does the conversion in software and was the bane of my existence last year.
    - ianburrell 3y ago
      There is also MHL alt mode. The HDMI alt mode was horrible because it used the whole USB-C cable as HDMI cable preventing any other users. MHL is HDMI but over a single pair. My understanding is that all the USB-C to HDMI adapters are using DisplayPort because that is more widely supported by devices. And the conversion chips are just as cheap as MHL to HDMI.
    - mr_toad 3y ago
      > have yet to see a true USB-C to HDMI adapter Not sure what this article means. I have a USB-C to HDMI adapter (made by Apple) and a USB-C to HDMI cable and both work.
      - ThatPlayer 3y ago
        The article talks about how adapters like yours use the DisplayPort Alt Mode protocol and then have a DP to HDMI adapter integrated. Rather than implementing the HDMI Alt Mode protocol which also works over USB-C.
  - jdiff 3y ago
    The article mentions the death of HDMI altmode. Is it actually widely supported?
    - jsheard 3y ago
      It seems not, I missed that HDMI altmode is still stuck at HDMI 1.4 and they're not making any attempt to bring it up to HDMI 2.0. DisplayPort indeed won in that case.
  - Zekio 3y ago
    no vendors implemented it, so whenever you are currently doing hdmi over usb-c it is actually hdmi over dp over usb-c
    - johnwalkr 3y ago
      Which is fine and should stay well-supported because HDMI is also here to stay. The trend for TVs is to include HDMI ports but no displayports.
  - babypuncher 3y ago
    The problem is these two competing standards solve overlapping but distinct problem sets. DisplayPort was designed to be used for computer monitors, while HDMI was designed for home theaters. This may not seem like a very meaningful distinction to most people, but it would become readily apparent to anyone trying to design a home theater around DisplayPort instead of HDMI. Off the top of my head, DisplayPort lacks any equivalents for ARC, Auto Lipsync, and CEC. Odds are your home theater makes use of at least two of these features, even if you don't realize it.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
Salgat 3y ago
DisplayPort and HDMI's max length is 15m, compared to USB 3.1's 3m.
- jsheard 3y ago
  That very much depends on how much bandwidth you're pushing through the cable, older versions of HDMI could tolerate long cable runs but HDMI 2.1 is also limited to about 3m unless you use an expensive active optical cable. DisplayPort 2.0/2.1 is taking forever to come to market but it's going to be similarly limited in its high bandwidth modes when it does arrive.
  - puzzlingcaptcha 3y ago
    40G FRL5 (4K @ 144Hz) seems to work just fine for me with a 8m HDMI 2.1-certified cable (copper). But I had trouble finding longer ones from the same vendor which makes me suspect it is getting close to the limit.
  - latchkey 3y ago
    They aren't that expensive... 100' is $72 on Amazon. https://www.amazon.com/Highwings-48Gbps-Dynamic-Compatible-Desktop/dp/B0B5GZ4KDJ/ref=dp_prsubs_sccl_3/145-0589360-0830529 https://www.amazon.com/Highwings-48Gbps-Dynamic-Compatible-D...
masklinn 3y ago
For laptops it's pretty clearly USB-C with DP alt mode, just way too convenient to use a display as a charging hub. Desktop CG manufacturers don't care and it doesn't really drive sales (NVidia has completely removed it, and AMD's tends to be pretty buggy, it's really just DP over a USB-C port) so you need conversion add-in cards (usually from your mobo manufacturer). Also display manufacturers, standard connectivity seems to be 2xHDMI 1xDP and a USB-C if you're lucky (with a few cool oddballs providing 2xDP 1xHDMI instead). Pretty hard to do all-USB if that means you can't plug more than one machine to your display.
- immibis 3y ago
  Many connectors in one. Is the video output the left port or the right one? How about the charging port?
  - masklinn 3y ago
    Just make all ports fully capable?
    - immibis 3y ago
      You want the laptop to have 8 GPUs just in case someone plugs a display into every port?
      - jacquesm 3y ago
        That's (1) a strawman and (2) what do you care what other people want to do with their computers?
        immibis 3y ago
        I think very few people will buy the laptop with 8 GPUs because it will be expensive. It's not a strawman - it's what you asked for. Or what did you mean instead?
_ea1k 3y ago
I just wish the Google Pixel line supported display out over USB-C.
- dawidpotocki 3y ago
  According to the recent leaks, Pixel 8 line will have DP out. So your wish might come true.
EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 3y ago
I recently switched DisplayPort connecting my laptop to the monitor for USB-C, didn't see any difference, except now I get video (4kx60hz, max for my monitor), audio, can connect mouse and keyboard directly to the monitor, and the cable is thinner and lighter. Am I missing on something?
- deergomoo 3y ago
  Don’t forget power delivery! Having a truly one-cable docking setup is a godsend if you need to switch between devices regularly.
BadBadJellyBean 3y ago
That's okay as well as long as it's consistent

mikepurvis 3y ago

I've always been surprised there aren't more receptacles out there that accept either a DisplayPort or HDMI plug. I've only seen it on one motherboard, but in retrospect, it seems obvious that the DisplayPort plug was designed to facilitate such a thing.

yonatan8070 3y ago
Do you happen to know what the model of the motherboard was? I've never heard of a receptacle that accepts both HDMI and DP
- mikepurvis 3y ago
  Unfortunately I don't, and it's a tricky thing to Google for, but I believe it was something industrial where space was at a premium (I work in robotics).
Kirby64 3y ago
Are you sure you're not thinking of DP++ ? https://www.kensington.com/news/docking-connectivity-blog/difference-between-dp-and-dual-mode-display-video-ports/# https://www.kensington.com/news/docking-connectivity-blog/di... Its a displayport connector, but the port itself can become an HDMI or DVI port purely with a passive adapter.

bluedino 3y ago

Oh, but there's a third. MiniDP. I have a pile of useless cables/adapters now, since Apple started using them but replaced them with USB-C back in 2015.

cassianoleal 3y ago
There is also mini and micro HDMI. https://www.howtogeek.com/745530/hdmi-vs-mini-hdmi-vs-micro-hdmi-whats-the-difference/ https://www.howtogeek.com/745530/hdmi-vs-mini-hdmi-vs-micro-...
CyberDildonics 3y ago
Oh, but that's not a different video interface.