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I hope Microsoft quickly finds a solution to move to RISC. I don't care about compatibility with older software. I want the battery life without having to move

I hope Microsoft quickly finds a solution to move to RISC. I don't care about compatibility with older software. I want the battery life without having to move to MacOS and using it's awful window management.

esskay 3y ago
I highly doubt they ever will. Their insistance on baking in legacy support to modern Windows is their biggest downfall. Because of that every installation of Windows will always need to be backwards compatible and carry that burden.
- dannersy 3y ago
  Which is odd because I feel like they run a VM for older compatibilities anyway?
- BirAdam 3y ago
  I think this could be handled more elegantly, as Apple has been able to make x86 compatibility better and more performant than quite a bit of actual x86 silicon… for MS, the backward compat of their software stack is rather important for enterprise customers. Honestly tho, I find modern Windows infuriating to use without stripping it down quite a bit. Tiny11 is a lifesaver.
  - sgjohnson 3y ago
    > I think this could be handled more elegantly, as Apple has been able to make x86 compatibility better and more performant than quite a bit of actual x86 silicon. I wouldn’t count on this being the case going forward. Let’s not forget that some 4 years ago Apple decided to completely drop support for 32-bit apps. I wouldn’t be surprised if in 5-8 years time they decide to drop support for anything x86. Apple hates supporting legacy crap. The exact moment when the vast majority of the recently updated Mac apps will have ARM builds, Apple will just set a release some years in the future that will kill native x86 support and that will be the end of it.
    - pxc 3y ago
      > I wouldn’t be surprised if in 5-8 years time they decide to drop support for anything x86. I'd be pretty shocked if they didn't.
- mcmcmc 3y ago
  They've supported ARM since Windows 10, and there are multiple Surface models that have an ARM chip.
  - esskay 3y ago
    Supported is probably the wrong term. Tolerated might be better. Whilst Windows runs on it theres very little there beyond the usual Microsoft standard of "yep we did it, whats next" and ignoring the platform. Making it work on ARM is one thing, making it work well, and supporting the platform are a far more important part of the puzzle.
orangepurple 3y ago
Remove 11 and install Windows 10 LTSC IOT edition until the equivalent for 11 drops. Make Windows shut up for good with Tinywall (https://tinywall.pados.hu/ https://tinywall.pados.hu/) and whitelist applications as needed.
easeout 3y ago
If window management is the only thing holding you back, look into the third party UI helper app scene. There have been lots of them—Rectangle for example. https://rectangleapp.com/ https://rectangleapp.com/
manuelabeledo 3y ago
What is so bad about MacOS window management? I haven't used Windows for a while, but back in the day, it did not provide any extra capabilities in this regard over MacOS. Now I use an extension to tile the desktop with windows, and it works great.
- thefz 3y ago
  > What is so bad about MacOS window management? MacOS is so intrusive and distracting that I can't imagine doing any meaningful work on it, feels like a toy OS.
  - manuelabeledo 3y ago
    Any specific example of this?
- flohofwoe 3y ago
  macOS window management is "application centric", while Windows and most Linux desktops are "window centric". Mac is my primary platform since a decade now, but I still find that particular aspect quite awkward, old time Mac users seem to like it though (it's not much of an issue for me since I don't use many UI apps anyway besides iTerm2, Chrome and VSCode).
- kemayo 3y ago
  Windows does have some more built-in window tools these days -- it lets you snap windows into various parts of the screen by dragging them up against the edges. You can replicate that on macOS with apps like Rectangle. More-controversial is the different behavior of cmd-tab between Mac and Windows (app-level vs window-level). Once you learn that cmd-` also exists for switching between windows inside an app, I find it's a matter of personal preference and you can make arguments either way about which one is "better"...
  - pxc 3y ago
    > Once you learn that cmd-` also exists for switching between windows inside an app, I find it's a matter of personal preference and you can make arguments either way about which one is "better"... Here is an example of how the app-centric model of task switching is problematic beyond personal preference: it causes focus stealing when opening GUI windows from the CLI. The apps themselves have to (partially, because that's the best they can do) work around the window manager's broken behavior. The final answer from the initiated seems to be 'you're holding it wrong'. So here we have a Certified Unix™ where something as banal as setting your $EDITOR to a GUI program is broken by default and even when 'fixed' causes your window order to be shuffled around. Examples: https://emacs.stackexchange.com/questions/24033/when-returning-from-emacsclient-to-iterm2-terminal-not-getting-focus https://emacs.stackexchange.com/questions/24033/when-returni... https://github.com/sublimehq/sublime_text/issues/4460 https://github.com/sublimehq/sublime_text/issues/4460 https://www.reddit.com/r/osx/comments/i5zqn5/focus_doesnt_return_to_iterm2/ https://www.reddit.com/r/osx/comments/i5zqn5/focus_doesnt_re... Using macOS is a barrage of papercuts like this for me, and the window manager is at the heart of many of them.
wyldfire 3y ago
If by RISC you mean RISC-V, I think it will be quite some time away. I suspect that most RISC-V designs that are supposed to compete with ARM apps processors don't actually have lower power consumption. ....yet.
- snvzz 3y ago
  If you mean SiFive's designs, they always target (and beat) some ARM one in PPA.

esskay 3y ago

I highly doubt they ever will. Their insistance on baking in legacy support to modern Windows is their biggest downfall. Because of that every installation of Windows will always need to be backwards compatible and carry that burden.

dannersy 3y ago
Which is odd because I feel like they run a VM for older compatibilities anyway?
BirAdam 3y ago
I think this could be handled more elegantly, as Apple has been able to make x86 compatibility better and more performant than quite a bit of actual x86 silicon… for MS, the backward compat of their software stack is rather important for enterprise customers. Honestly tho, I find modern Windows infuriating to use without stripping it down quite a bit. Tiny11 is a lifesaver.
- sgjohnson 3y ago
  > I think this could be handled more elegantly, as Apple has been able to make x86 compatibility better and more performant than quite a bit of actual x86 silicon. I wouldn’t count on this being the case going forward. Let’s not forget that some 4 years ago Apple decided to completely drop support for 32-bit apps. I wouldn’t be surprised if in 5-8 years time they decide to drop support for anything x86. Apple hates supporting legacy crap. The exact moment when the vast majority of the recently updated Mac apps will have ARM builds, Apple will just set a release some years in the future that will kill native x86 support and that will be the end of it.
  - pxc 3y ago
    > I wouldn’t be surprised if in 5-8 years time they decide to drop support for anything x86. I'd be pretty shocked if they didn't.
mcmcmc 3y ago
They've supported ARM since Windows 10, and there are multiple Surface models that have an ARM chip.
- esskay 3y ago
  Supported is probably the wrong term. Tolerated might be better. Whilst Windows runs on it theres very little there beyond the usual Microsoft standard of "yep we did it, whats next" and ignoring the platform. Making it work on ARM is one thing, making it work well, and supporting the platform are a far more important part of the puzzle.

orangepurple 3y ago

Remove 11 and install Windows 10 LTSC IOT edition until the equivalent for 11 drops. Make Windows shut up for good with Tinywall (https://tinywall.pados.hu/ https://tinywall.pados.hu/) and whitelist applications as needed.

easeout 3y ago

If window management is the only thing holding you back, look into the third party UI helper app scene. There have been lots of them—Rectangle for example. https://rectangleapp.com/ https://rectangleapp.com/

manuelabeledo 3y ago

What is so bad about MacOS window management? I haven't used Windows for a while, but back in the day, it did not provide any extra capabilities in this regard over MacOS. Now I use an extension to tile the desktop with windows, and it works great.

thefz 3y ago
> What is so bad about MacOS window management? MacOS is so intrusive and distracting that I can't imagine doing any meaningful work on it, feels like a toy OS.
- manuelabeledo 3y ago
  Any specific example of this?
flohofwoe 3y ago
macOS window management is "application centric", while Windows and most Linux desktops are "window centric". Mac is my primary platform since a decade now, but I still find that particular aspect quite awkward, old time Mac users seem to like it though (it's not much of an issue for me since I don't use many UI apps anyway besides iTerm2, Chrome and VSCode).
kemayo 3y ago
Windows does have some more built-in window tools these days -- it lets you snap windows into various parts of the screen by dragging them up against the edges. You can replicate that on macOS with apps like Rectangle. More-controversial is the different behavior of cmd-tab between Mac and Windows (app-level vs window-level). Once you learn that cmd-` also exists for switching between windows inside an app, I find it's a matter of personal preference and you can make arguments either way about which one is "better"...
- pxc 3y ago
  > Once you learn that cmd-` also exists for switching between windows inside an app, I find it's a matter of personal preference and you can make arguments either way about which one is "better"... Here is an example of how the app-centric model of task switching is problematic beyond personal preference: it causes focus stealing when opening GUI windows from the CLI. The apps themselves have to (partially, because that's the best they can do) work around the window manager's broken behavior. The final answer from the initiated seems to be 'you're holding it wrong'. So here we have a Certified Unix™ where something as banal as setting your $EDITOR to a GUI program is broken by default and even when 'fixed' causes your window order to be shuffled around. Examples: https://emacs.stackexchange.com/questions/24033/when-returning-from-emacsclient-to-iterm2-terminal-not-getting-focus https://emacs.stackexchange.com/questions/24033/when-returni... https://github.com/sublimehq/sublime_text/issues/4460 https://github.com/sublimehq/sublime_text/issues/4460 https://www.reddit.com/r/osx/comments/i5zqn5/focus_doesnt_return_to_iterm2/ https://www.reddit.com/r/osx/comments/i5zqn5/focus_doesnt_re... Using macOS is a barrage of papercuts like this for me, and the window manager is at the heart of many of them.

wyldfire 3y ago

If by RISC you mean RISC-V, I think it will be quite some time away. I suspect that most RISC-V designs that are supposed to compete with ARM apps processors don't actually have lower power consumption. ....yet.

snvzz 3y ago
If you mean SiFive's designs, they always target (and beat) some ARM one in PPA.