5 ms·

True, but increasingly marginal. Many schools have adopted Chromebooks (Linux in disguise) and even the MS Office suite has largely moved online.

cmilton 3y ago
I agree. Google Classroom exploded during the pandemic in my local school systems. Enterprises are moving to Workspace from 365. I hope they drive each other's prices to the bottom. :)
- sbuk 3y ago
  "Enterprises are moving to Workspace from 365" not in any meaningful numbers.
  - cmilton 3y ago
    > not in any meaningful numbers. While I agree, it has to start somewhere. As a customer of both, I appreciate the competition from 1-2% per year[0] growth. [0]https://blogs.gartner.com/craig-roth/2022/08/02/market-share-for-office-productivity-published/ https://blogs.gartner.com/craig-roth/2022/08/02/market-share...
- DrThunder 3y ago
  Nah... We've had Workspace for a long time and there are still users that adamantly refuse to use Google Apps over MS. They actually have good reasons as well. Since Google just has web apps only there's always extra steps uploading all the office docs they get from other businesses. We tried blowing Office 2013 away on everyone's machines after being told most users didn't think they needed it. Now, a few months later 90% of our users have asked for a 365 license. What typically happens from what I can tell is that most businesses just end up having a mix of both 365 and Workspace.
  - cmilton 3y ago
    Great feedback! Excel specifically seems to have the most attachment among our users.
    - nephanth 3y ago
      Excel has programming capabilities (VBA) that are used a lot, and I don't think they're available in the online version (are they?)
jacquesm 3y ago
MS is on a mission to go after schools that have adopted Chromebooks. If your school is using Chromebooks you can expect all kinds of stick-and-carrot tricks to try to get you to switch (back).
- mavhc 3y ago
  They invented the hilarious Surface SE, so bad it can't even run all Metro/Store apps. Worse than a Chromebook in every way. Everything you want to install has to be approved by Microsoft
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
jdietrich 3y ago
A lot of people are stuck on Windows or MacOS because of one killer app - Photoshop, a CAD/CAM package, a video or audio editor, or some proprietary bit of business software. Many of these applications have tens or hundreds of millions of dollars worth of dev time invested in them and it just isn't realistic to expect an open source alternative to compete. I'm in that boat, but I don't especially mind. I run Windows because it allows me to run Fusion 360, but Windows Subsystem for Linux gives me a full Linux dev environment. A younger me would have got angry about it, but present me accepts that platform lock-in effects are very strong; fortunately for Linux, it dominates every new category of platform. I sincerely doubt that anyone will ever develop a new proprietary OS from scratch, because the business case for putting a pretty UI on Linux is overwhelming.
- resolutebat 3y ago
  Sure but we were talking about students at schools here, where this is usually not a problem.
- deadbyte 3y ago
  I hope that Photopea (browser-based Photoshop) can gain traction to break that dependency.
  - RAM-bunctious 3y ago
    I know the evidence is that plenty of people are totally happy with applications running in a browser -- Office Online, Google Sheets, etc. are compelling evidence -- but I strongly prefer dedicated and native applications for something I'll be spending a lot of time using. I'm not even necessarily blaming this on the performance difference, although that is a pertinent topic, but just the mental structure of something I'm using living in a browser tab rather than actually running on the computer.
    - vengefulduck 3y ago
      Installable web apps would give you a workaround for that wouldn’t it?
georgyo 3y ago
If the parents are talking about choice, then forced Chromebooks are not choice. The students must use them, and schools like them because they are very locked down and centrally observable. But the student has no choice
gglitch 3y ago
> Chromebooks (Linux in disguise) I don't think a win for Chromebooks counts as a win for Linux, except in maybe the most narrowly technical sense.
- MSFT_Edging 3y ago
  Go on the Chromeos subreddit and you'll see a lot of first time Linux users breaking open the dev tools to run Linux apps to get more functionality. Its honestly quite interesting seeing new users from that perspective.
  - askiiart 3y ago
    Yes, but many schools lock down their Chromebooks so that you can't run Linux on them. I somehow managed to unenroll mine last year, but I have no idea how I did, and to make it worse I had to switch out my Chromebook after it stopped working. So in practice, no, it's not very useful. Most students are still forced to use a web browser and nothing more, else they run the risk of getting in trouble for hacking their Chromebook. Tangent: That being said, it's hilarious how much worse the schools are at locking down Windows computers. As far as I can tell, they just bought a few commercial solutions, set them up on the Chromebooks, and paid no attention to the Windows computers. The BIOS isn't even locked. They're only restricted at the network level.
    - nephanth 3y ago
      My middle school's computers (desktop pcs with windows at the time) fidn't have passwords on the bios We would bring linux "live users to boot on and play minecraft A loss for the school, but definitely a win for our education

cmilton 3y ago

I agree. Google Classroom exploded during the pandemic in my local school systems. Enterprises are moving to Workspace from 365. I hope they drive each other's prices to the bottom. :)

sbuk 3y ago
"Enterprises are moving to Workspace from 365" not in any meaningful numbers.
- cmilton 3y ago
  > not in any meaningful numbers. While I agree, it has to start somewhere. As a customer of both, I appreciate the competition from 1-2% per year[0] growth. [0]https://blogs.gartner.com/craig-roth/2022/08/02/market-share-for-office-productivity-published/ https://blogs.gartner.com/craig-roth/2022/08/02/market-share...
DrThunder 3y ago
Nah... We've had Workspace for a long time and there are still users that adamantly refuse to use Google Apps over MS. They actually have good reasons as well. Since Google just has web apps only there's always extra steps uploading all the office docs they get from other businesses. We tried blowing Office 2013 away on everyone's machines after being told most users didn't think they needed it. Now, a few months later 90% of our users have asked for a 365 license. What typically happens from what I can tell is that most businesses just end up having a mix of both 365 and Workspace.
- cmilton 3y ago
  Great feedback! Excel specifically seems to have the most attachment among our users.
  - nephanth 3y ago
    Excel has programming capabilities (VBA) that are used a lot, and I don't think they're available in the online version (are they?)

jacquesm 3y ago

MS is on a mission to go after schools that have adopted Chromebooks. If your school is using Chromebooks you can expect all kinds of stick-and-carrot tricks to try to get you to switch (back).

mavhc 3y ago
They invented the hilarious Surface SE, so bad it can't even run all Metro/Store apps. Worse than a Chromebook in every way. Everything you want to install has to be approved by Microsoft

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

jdietrich 3y ago

A lot of people are stuck on Windows or MacOS because of one killer app - Photoshop, a CAD/CAM package, a video or audio editor, or some proprietary bit of business software. Many of these applications have tens or hundreds of millions of dollars worth of dev time invested in them and it just isn't realistic to expect an open source alternative to compete. I'm in that boat, but I don't especially mind. I run Windows because it allows me to run Fusion 360, but Windows Subsystem for Linux gives me a full Linux dev environment. A younger me would have got angry about it, but present me accepts that platform lock-in effects are very strong; fortunately for Linux, it dominates every new category of platform. I sincerely doubt that anyone will ever develop a new proprietary OS from scratch, because the business case for putting a pretty UI on Linux is overwhelming.

resolutebat 3y ago
Sure but we were talking about students at schools here, where this is usually not a problem.
deadbyte 3y ago
I hope that Photopea (browser-based Photoshop) can gain traction to break that dependency.
- RAM-bunctious 3y ago
  I know the evidence is that plenty of people are totally happy with applications running in a browser -- Office Online, Google Sheets, etc. are compelling evidence -- but I strongly prefer dedicated and native applications for something I'll be spending a lot of time using. I'm not even necessarily blaming this on the performance difference, although that is a pertinent topic, but just the mental structure of something I'm using living in a browser tab rather than actually running on the computer.
  - vengefulduck 3y ago
    Installable web apps would give you a workaround for that wouldn’t it?

georgyo 3y ago

If the parents are talking about choice, then forced Chromebooks are not choice. The students must use them, and schools like them because they are very locked down and centrally observable. But the student has no choice

gglitch 3y ago

> Chromebooks (Linux in disguise) I don't think a win for Chromebooks counts as a win for Linux, except in maybe the most narrowly technical sense.

MSFT_Edging 3y ago
Go on the Chromeos subreddit and you'll see a lot of first time Linux users breaking open the dev tools to run Linux apps to get more functionality. Its honestly quite interesting seeing new users from that perspective.
- askiiart 3y ago
  Yes, but many schools lock down their Chromebooks so that you can't run Linux on them. I somehow managed to unenroll mine last year, but I have no idea how I did, and to make it worse I had to switch out my Chromebook after it stopped working. So in practice, no, it's not very useful. Most students are still forced to use a web browser and nothing more, else they run the risk of getting in trouble for hacking their Chromebook. Tangent: That being said, it's hilarious how much worse the schools are at locking down Windows computers. As far as I can tell, they just bought a few commercial solutions, set them up on the Chromebooks, and paid no attention to the Windows computers. The BIOS isn't even locked. They're only restricted at the network level.
  - nephanth 3y ago
    My middle school's computers (desktop pcs with windows at the time) fidn't have passwords on the bios We would bring linux "live users to boot on and play minecraft A loss for the school, but definitely a win for our education