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~26,200 Ukrainian draft dodgers / deserters in Romania[1] don't seem to share your sentiment. [1]: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65792384 https://www.b

~26,200 Ukrainian draft dodgers / deserters in Romania[1] don't seem to share your sentiment. [1]: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65792384 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65792384

yetihehe 3y ago
Don't forget most of Russians. They don't share my sentiment either. Many of them are even convinced that Ukrainians want to take their land, so they are in fact defending from Ukrainians. This doesn't change anything.
maxbond 3y ago
It is incredibly disingenuous to imply people who fled the war must necessarily support your position that Ukraine should make concessions to Russia. That is straight up trolling.
- herewulf 3y ago
  No, incredibly disingenuous would be: 1. Ukrainian military age males, legally required by their government to serve in the armed forces, fleeing 2. AND THEN insisting the war not end while their countrymen are dying on their behalf I might assume you were trolling but instead I'll assume you don't understand what a Ukrainian draft dodger / deserter is in this situation.
  - yetihehe 3y ago
    > 2. AND THEN insisting the war not end while their countrymen are dying on their behalf I wish the war ended as soon as possible too and that no one dies anymore. Most of those fighting on the front want to stop this war as soon as possible so that they don't die (if they wanted to die, they could just storm Russian positions without weapons). Ukraine giving up doesn't look like a valid answer. They gave up some territories in 2014 but Russia still came with tanks and started shooting at everything and killing (often in gruesome ways) civilians. I bet that if Russians could just go home, this war would be stopped pretty soon, but alas they don't want to go home. Why?
  - maxbond 3y ago
    Desperate people make desperate decisions, ergo, might makes right and Russia should be appeased? And when did we establish that they're insisting on the war to continue? This is a knot of false assumptions: that people who flee the conflict have some uniform opinion; that this in any way justifies concessions; that people who flee the conflict have a particular unstated but heavily implied moral character. You can make as much of a show of extending me good will add you please, this is not a good faith argument and I have no hangups about calling it a spade.
_kbh_ 3y ago
You never answered the question, I'll pose a similar one but my guess is you will never directly answer. If someone came to your house, raped your child, castrated your bother and was occupying your kitchen. Would you given, you have the capability to fight back, fight back, or would you roll over and give your attacker your kitchen as part of 'negotiations'.

~26,200 Ukrainian draft dodgers / deserters in Romania[1] don't seem to share your sentiment. [1]: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65792384 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65792384

yetihehe 3y ago

Don't forget most of Russians. They don't share my sentiment either. Many of them are even convinced that Ukrainians want to take their land, so they are in fact defending from Ukrainians. This doesn't change anything.

maxbond 3y ago

It is incredibly disingenuous to imply people who fled the war must necessarily support your position that Ukraine should make concessions to Russia. That is straight up trolling.

herewulf 3y ago
No, incredibly disingenuous would be: 1. Ukrainian military age males, legally required by their government to serve in the armed forces, fleeing 2. AND THEN insisting the war not end while their countrymen are dying on their behalf I might assume you were trolling but instead I'll assume you don't understand what a Ukrainian draft dodger / deserter is in this situation.
- yetihehe 3y ago
  > 2. AND THEN insisting the war not end while their countrymen are dying on their behalf I wish the war ended as soon as possible too and that no one dies anymore. Most of those fighting on the front want to stop this war as soon as possible so that they don't die (if they wanted to die, they could just storm Russian positions without weapons). Ukraine giving up doesn't look like a valid answer. They gave up some territories in 2014 but Russia still came with tanks and started shooting at everything and killing (often in gruesome ways) civilians. I bet that if Russians could just go home, this war would be stopped pretty soon, but alas they don't want to go home. Why?
- maxbond 3y ago
  Desperate people make desperate decisions, ergo, might makes right and Russia should be appeased? And when did we establish that they're insisting on the war to continue? This is a knot of false assumptions: that people who flee the conflict have some uniform opinion; that this in any way justifies concessions; that people who flee the conflict have a particular unstated but heavily implied moral character. You can make as much of a show of extending me good will add you please, this is not a good faith argument and I have no hangups about calling it a spade.

_kbh_ 3y ago

You never answered the question, I'll pose a similar one but my guess is you will never directly answer. If someone came to your house, raped your child, castrated your bother and was occupying your kitchen. Would you given, you have the capability to fight back, fight back, or would you roll over and give your attacker your kitchen as part of 'negotiations'.