4 ms·

There are many, many servers that do not defederate with any other servers. If you're assuming the majority of Fediverse* admins or users engage in these childi

There are many, many servers that do not defederate with any other servers. If you're assuming the majority of Fediverse* admins or users engage in these childish games, you are wrong. If you prefer closed source spyware social media apps, by all means, stick with Twitter and refuse to do your research. * Mastodon is just one server/client software in a gigantic decentralized network.

indigochill 3y ago
> There are many, many servers that do not defederate with any other servers. Uh, I'm like 99% sure _every_ server defederates with many other servers. You have to to not federate anime waifus and other generally undesirable content. Defederation is merely a moderation tool to prune your graph to nodes with similar moderation criteria. People right now are talking about defederating with Threads on ideological grounds but whether or not it happens doesn't really matter. If they want to cut out that part of the social graph, that's their prerogative and others can make the other decision.
xigoi 3y ago
> There are many, many servers that do not defederate with any other servers. Yeah? Where are they? > If you prefer closed source spyware social media apps, by all means, stick with Twitter and refuse to do your research. No, I prefer social media which doesn't engage in censorship.
mcv 3y ago
There are also very specific nazi-servers. Defederating them is pretty essential to a lot of people who don't want to see nazis popping up in their comments or streams. But beyond that, all those defederation games really need to die. I've already seen a major Mastodon instance defederate a popular art instance for its admin warning against dealing with Facebook. That defederation was widely condemned. It should be possible to talk about this. It should be possible to disagree about this. I'm personally strongly on the side of wait and see. If Threads turns out to have a terrible effect on the Fediverse, we can always defederate them later. I do caution against special deals and NDAs with Facebook, but other than that, I'd rather keep things as open as possible until there's a real need for something else. And please let's not let this issue divide the Fediverse. (I'm not on Mastodon but on Friendica.)
- RamblingCTO 3y ago
  > There are also very specific nazi-servers. Defederating them is pretty essential to a lot of people who don't want to see nazis popping up in their comments or streams. Then they're part of the problem. Just don't subscribe to them. I'd prefer to see the world how it is, including all idiots and extremists. Closing your eyes does nothing.
  - xethos 3y ago
    > Closing your eyes does nothing No, but throwing away the trash leaves a nicer common area for the people that hang out there. The Nazis will pop up in your replies, your followed hashtags, fuckin' everywhere. It's dramatically nicer without them.
  - chrisnight 3y ago
    > Just don't subscribe to them. (Assuming you're not on a single user server) The problem is, in order for a user to see them, they don't need to explicitly subscribe to them, they need to not block them, which is the default state. Sure, your home feed is people that you're subscribed to, but searching (via hashtags and otherwise) and your federated feed are both looking through all content that the server has found that hasn't been explicitly blocked. Not to mention replies to posts aswell could be from anywhere. This will inevitably, at some point, by the nature of anyone being able to post anything on their own servers, include "unsavory" photos including: Literal suicide, murder, abuse, uncensored pornography, death threats, witch hunts, and more. And yes, this will be included in normal use. I myself saw a spammer that spammed uncensored pornography to a bunch of "welcome to Mastodon" hashtags in the first 30 minutes of my server being up. > Closing your eyes does nothing. While this will not cause the actions occurring to stop existing, acting as if the mental health of the viewer is irrelevant is not acceptable. I've known servers where people weren't able to sleep at night because someone spammed videos of animal harm/abuse... and in that case, the admins eventually deleted it and banned them. Your suggestion is to just "let it be shown" and "let the user block it if they don't want to see it". While seeing things once and then blocking is better than not being able to block at all, trusted authorities (admins?) should have the ability to stop content from being spread to users that trust them to handle unwanted content. Sometimes never seeing things is the best option. Perhaps the middle group here is to allow users to disable administrative "suggestions" and see all content, if they so choose? (Although this is not truly possible with Mastodon, perhaps future federated networks could implement a similar idea)

indigochill 3y ago

> There are many, many servers that do not defederate with any other servers. Uh, I'm like 99% sure _every_ server defederates with many other servers. You have to to not federate anime waifus and other generally undesirable content. Defederation is merely a moderation tool to prune your graph to nodes with similar moderation criteria. People right now are talking about defederating with Threads on ideological grounds but whether or not it happens doesn't really matter. If they want to cut out that part of the social graph, that's their prerogative and others can make the other decision.

xigoi 3y ago

> There are many, many servers that do not defederate with any other servers. Yeah? Where are they? > If you prefer closed source spyware social media apps, by all means, stick with Twitter and refuse to do your research. No, I prefer social media which doesn't engage in censorship.

mcv 3y ago

There are also very specific nazi-servers. Defederating them is pretty essential to a lot of people who don't want to see nazis popping up in their comments or streams. But beyond that, all those defederation games really need to die. I've already seen a major Mastodon instance defederate a popular art instance for its admin warning against dealing with Facebook. That defederation was widely condemned. It should be possible to talk about this. It should be possible to disagree about this. I'm personally strongly on the side of wait and see. If Threads turns out to have a terrible effect on the Fediverse, we can always defederate them later. I do caution against special deals and NDAs with Facebook, but other than that, I'd rather keep things as open as possible until there's a real need for something else. And please let's not let this issue divide the Fediverse. (I'm not on Mastodon but on Friendica.)

RamblingCTO 3y ago
> There are also very specific nazi-servers. Defederating them is pretty essential to a lot of people who don't want to see nazis popping up in their comments or streams. Then they're part of the problem. Just don't subscribe to them. I'd prefer to see the world how it is, including all idiots and extremists. Closing your eyes does nothing.
- xethos 3y ago
  > Closing your eyes does nothing No, but throwing away the trash leaves a nicer common area for the people that hang out there. The Nazis will pop up in your replies, your followed hashtags, fuckin' everywhere. It's dramatically nicer without them.
- chrisnight 3y ago
  > Just don't subscribe to them. (Assuming you're not on a single user server) The problem is, in order for a user to see them, they don't need to explicitly subscribe to them, they need to not block them, which is the default state. Sure, your home feed is people that you're subscribed to, but searching (via hashtags and otherwise) and your federated feed are both looking through all content that the server has found that hasn't been explicitly blocked. Not to mention replies to posts aswell could be from anywhere. This will inevitably, at some point, by the nature of anyone being able to post anything on their own servers, include "unsavory" photos including: Literal suicide, murder, abuse, uncensored pornography, death threats, witch hunts, and more. And yes, this will be included in normal use. I myself saw a spammer that spammed uncensored pornography to a bunch of "welcome to Mastodon" hashtags in the first 30 minutes of my server being up. > Closing your eyes does nothing. While this will not cause the actions occurring to stop existing, acting as if the mental health of the viewer is irrelevant is not acceptable. I've known servers where people weren't able to sleep at night because someone spammed videos of animal harm/abuse... and in that case, the admins eventually deleted it and banned them. Your suggestion is to just "let it be shown" and "let the user block it if they don't want to see it". While seeing things once and then blocking is better than not being able to block at all, trusted authorities (admins?) should have the ability to stop content from being spread to users that trust them to handle unwanted content. Sometimes never seeing things is the best option. Perhaps the middle group here is to allow users to disable administrative "suggestions" and see all content, if they so choose? (Although this is not truly possible with Mastodon, perhaps future federated networks could implement a similar idea)