3 ms·

I think we're past the sweet spot, things are starting to go "casual user", you only need to check what Ubuntu and Fedora are pushing,in a way the "windows ific

by Nux 3y ago

I think we're past the sweet spot, things are starting to go "casual user", you only need to check what Ubuntu and Fedora are pushing,in a way the "windows ification" of Linux: gnome 3/4,systemd+,snapd,telemetry etc.

kaba0 3y ago
Yeah, systemd is definitely there to lure in the casual users..
- dTal 3y ago
  It's not so much that systemd is designed to lure in casual users, it's that it (like other software on the list) reflects an attitude that separates "developers" who decide how a system should work, from "users" who have to take what's given to them. This stands in opposition to the traditional unixy world order, where the two groups are one and the same "hackers".
  - kaba0 3y ago
    How exactly does the completely customizable systemd does any of that?
oytis 3y ago
I'm using ubuntu among other distros, and it never tried to push gnome to me. Using i3 is literally one "apt install" away. As of systemd I'm old enough to remember when initialization was managed by a pile of unreadable shell scripts and I never wanted it back.
pkkm 3y ago
It's odd that you included systemd in the list. It's something that a casual user isn't going to notice, but that has made life easier for system administrators and desktop tinkerers. With systemd, I can write a few lines of config to turn a simple Python script into a daemon with syslog integration, process monitoring, and resource limits. I understand the concerns about scope creep, but I'd take systemd any day over the maze of distro-specific shell scripts that was there before it.
- dTal 3y ago
  Systemd definitely belongs in the list, even if some admins like it. "Windowsification" is a admittedly vague concept, but tends to cover software that is gratuitously different, not a team player in the bazaar, prone to making land grabs through "embrace and extend", and reluctant to offer configuration options that conflict with its "opinionated" stances. As an aside, I'm really sick of the systemd / "random pile of shell scripts" false dichotomy. It's trivial to turn a python script into a system service with runit, too. Simple, stable, and focused.
- JohnFen 3y ago
  Systemd was widely adopted because it makes life easier for the distros. It is directly resulting from the increased popularity of Linux putting an increased demand on them.
jonfw 3y ago
I don't see what ubuntu takes away from arch, alpine, or gentoo. There are many options

by Nux 3y ago

kaba0 3y ago

Yeah, systemd is definitely there to lure in the casual users..

dTal 3y ago
It's not so much that systemd is designed to lure in casual users, it's that it (like other software on the list) reflects an attitude that separates "developers" who decide how a system should work, from "users" who have to take what's given to them. This stands in opposition to the traditional unixy world order, where the two groups are one and the same "hackers".
- kaba0 3y ago
  How exactly does the completely customizable systemd does any of that?

oytis 3y ago

I'm using ubuntu among other distros, and it never tried to push gnome to me. Using i3 is literally one "apt install" away. As of systemd I'm old enough to remember when initialization was managed by a pile of unreadable shell scripts and I never wanted it back.

pkkm 3y ago

It's odd that you included systemd in the list. It's something that a casual user isn't going to notice, but that has made life easier for system administrators and desktop tinkerers. With systemd, I can write a few lines of config to turn a simple Python script into a daemon with syslog integration, process monitoring, and resource limits. I understand the concerns about scope creep, but I'd take systemd any day over the maze of distro-specific shell scripts that was there before it.

dTal 3y ago
Systemd definitely belongs in the list, even if some admins like it. "Windowsification" is a admittedly vague concept, but tends to cover software that is gratuitously different, not a team player in the bazaar, prone to making land grabs through "embrace and extend", and reluctant to offer configuration options that conflict with its "opinionated" stances. As an aside, I'm really sick of the systemd / "random pile of shell scripts" false dichotomy. It's trivial to turn a python script into a system service with runit, too. Simple, stable, and focused.
JohnFen 3y ago
Systemd was widely adopted because it makes life easier for the distros. It is directly resulting from the increased popularity of Linux putting an increased demand on them.

jonfw 3y ago

I don't see what ubuntu takes away from arch, alpine, or gentoo. There are many options