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I'm torn on this whole M1 MacBook scrap situation due to Activation Lock. On one hand, I get the need for security. Activation Lock makes Apple devices less app

I'm torn on this whole M1 MacBook scrap situation due to Activation Lock. On one hand, I get the need for security. Activation Lock makes Apple devices less appealing to thieves, which is a win for owners. I've seen cases where stolen iPhones are practically useless thanks to this feature. But on the other side, it's frustrating to see perfectly usable tech turned into waste. Apples does have owner transfer service that works very well, I've used it for a few sales and now there's also a "Legacy Contacts" feature if someone passed away (added 2022).

nicolas_17 3y ago
What would it even mean to "retain the stolen status" if you can reuse it normally?
- tmikaeld 3y ago
  I mean that when you use the mac with the stolen disk, the status would still be "stolen". Apple already have an owner-transfer service that I've used many times, the problem is how this would work if someone passed away. It would make sense to disable some features, even if it's still in "stolen" status, so that it's not completely wasted.
  - nicolas_17 3y ago
    > Apple already have an owner-transfer service that I've used many times, the problem is how this would work if someone passed away. Did you configure this too? https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212360 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212360
    - tmikaeld 3y ago
      That one didn't exist when I last used the transfer (Looks like it was added 2022) - Nice one! Thanks.
- PrimeMcFly 3y ago
  Make it so the main account it belongs to can't be removed/disabled, but can't be used to install new software, and location history can't be disabled. Give owners a chance to reclaim it, but allow some degree of use over just bricking it.
  - newaccount74 3y ago
    I think the main reason for using activation lock is to make stolen products worthless. If there's a way to use stolen devices, then they'll be worthwhile to steal.
    - PrimeMcFly 3y ago
      There's a middleground between fully useable and brick though. Not being able to remove or use the main account and having location history always on would go a long way. People can be trained not to buy a device where the main account can't be removed or the device can't be factory reset, and having the location unable to be disabled would deter a lot of thieves.
      - newaccount74 3y ago
        I don't want a middle ground, I want stolen devices to be 100% brick until returned to the owner. If you want to buy & sell used Macs, you need to check them first to see if they are locked. Just like you'd check if the keys work before buying a used car.
        PrimeMcFly 3y ago
        > I want stolen devices to be 100% brick until returned to the owner. Which is just contributing to the ewaste problem. What I proposed has now downsides unless you want to be petty.
        newaccount74 3y ago
        - A stolen device that is 100% brick has zero value, so there is no incentive to steal it. - A stolen device that can be used with some limitations can be sold for a higher price, so there is a much higher incentive to steal it. Call me petty all you want, but if you steal my Mac I'd much prefer it to end up in a landfill rather than have the thief make money from it. If they can't sell them, they'll stop stealing them at some point.
newaccount74 3y ago
There's a huge market for second hand Macs and iOS devices. I've bought a few and never had an issue with activation lock, because the seller just deactivates it before selling. The only people who have an issue with activation lock are people who want to resell devices from questionable sources.
- Ancapistani 3y ago
  A colleague of mine currently has five MBPs sitting on his desk. He's a foreign contractor, and the MBPs are owned by his agency. They didn't have a good asset management plan when they were purchased, so they were "bound" to the contractor that used them first. When those people moved on to other companies, the agency has no way to remove activation lock. At least one person claims to have forgotten their Apple ID's password - they don't have any personal Apple products - and the only available alternative is to ship it back to the agency, have them track down the original purchase receipt, and ask Apple nicely to unlock it that way. So no - those are not the only people who have an issue with activation lock. ... and for what it's worth, I like the way it's currently set up.
  - newaccount74 3y ago
    > at least one person claims to have forgotten their Apple ID's password I think you can reset your Apple ID password with the device password (unless you already wiped the device).
    - Ancapistani 3y ago
      That particular situation is even more complicated when you dig into it. The MBP was originally enrolled in the contracting agency's MDM system. They discontinued that, removed it, and it was enrolled in my employer's system. A few months after that person left, it was removed from my employer's system. The MBP wants an MDM key: Enter your MDM key to activate this device. We can't provide that because it was removed from my employer's MDM system. As a fallback, the Apple ID and password of the account previously used would work: This Mac is linked to an Apple ID. Enter the Apple ID and password that was previously used with this Mac. j•••••@icloud.com We can't provide that because even after tracking down the machine's previous user, they claim to not recall the password. They tried to reset their password, but the password reset email was sent to... their iCloud account, which they can't access. At this point, the only available option is the recovery process through Apple, which requires the original purchase receipt (including serial number!). I'm not sure if it's because of the agency's policy or Apple's, but the agency said they can only do that if they have it physically in their hands at the time. So, in short, that particular MBP is a brick unless and until it's shipped from my colleague's desk in Argentina to the agency's headquarters - then they should be able to unlock it. Finally, consider the value of the time involved here. My colleague estimates he's spent eight hours trying to get it unlocked. That was in coordination with the IT folks at both my employer and the contracting agency - so figure a total of ~30 hours burned so far. Based on the average salary of a "software engineer"[0], 40 hours per week and 50 weeks per year, we've spent $1,728.84 already on a dead laptop[1] and haven't been able to get it working. That's already enough to buy a new machine with the same specs as this one. It quickly gets to the point where a smart company will just "throw it away" and buy a new one... because it's cheaper. 0: https://www.indeed.com/career/software-engineer/salaries https://www.indeed.com/career/software-engineer/salaries 1: $115,256 per year / 40 hours per week / 50 weeks per year = $57.628 / hour $57.628 / hour * 30 hours = $1,728.84

nicolas_17 3y ago

What would it even mean to "retain the stolen status" if you can reuse it normally?

tmikaeld 3y ago
I mean that when you use the mac with the stolen disk, the status would still be "stolen". Apple already have an owner-transfer service that I've used many times, the problem is how this would work if someone passed away. It would make sense to disable some features, even if it's still in "stolen" status, so that it's not completely wasted.
- nicolas_17 3y ago
  > Apple already have an owner-transfer service that I've used many times, the problem is how this would work if someone passed away. Did you configure this too? https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212360 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212360
  - tmikaeld 3y ago
    That one didn't exist when I last used the transfer (Looks like it was added 2022) - Nice one! Thanks.
PrimeMcFly 3y ago
Make it so the main account it belongs to can't be removed/disabled, but can't be used to install new software, and location history can't be disabled. Give owners a chance to reclaim it, but allow some degree of use over just bricking it.
- newaccount74 3y ago
  I think the main reason for using activation lock is to make stolen products worthless. If there's a way to use stolen devices, then they'll be worthwhile to steal.
  - PrimeMcFly 3y ago
    There's a middleground between fully useable and brick though. Not being able to remove or use the main account and having location history always on would go a long way. People can be trained not to buy a device where the main account can't be removed or the device can't be factory reset, and having the location unable to be disabled would deter a lot of thieves.
    - newaccount74 3y ago
      I don't want a middle ground, I want stolen devices to be 100% brick until returned to the owner. If you want to buy & sell used Macs, you need to check them first to see if they are locked. Just like you'd check if the keys work before buying a used car.
      - PrimeMcFly 3y ago
        > I want stolen devices to be 100% brick until returned to the owner. Which is just contributing to the ewaste problem. What I proposed has now downsides unless you want to be petty.
        newaccount74 3y ago
        - A stolen device that is 100% brick has zero value, so there is no incentive to steal it. - A stolen device that can be used with some limitations can be sold for a higher price, so there is a much higher incentive to steal it. Call me petty all you want, but if you steal my Mac I'd much prefer it to end up in a landfill rather than have the thief make money from it. If they can't sell them, they'll stop stealing them at some point.

newaccount74 3y ago

There's a huge market for second hand Macs and iOS devices. I've bought a few and never had an issue with activation lock, because the seller just deactivates it before selling. The only people who have an issue with activation lock are people who want to resell devices from questionable sources.

Ancapistani 3y ago
A colleague of mine currently has five MBPs sitting on his desk. He's a foreign contractor, and the MBPs are owned by his agency. They didn't have a good asset management plan when they were purchased, so they were "bound" to the contractor that used them first. When those people moved on to other companies, the agency has no way to remove activation lock. At least one person claims to have forgotten their Apple ID's password - they don't have any personal Apple products - and the only available alternative is to ship it back to the agency, have them track down the original purchase receipt, and ask Apple nicely to unlock it that way. So no - those are not the only people who have an issue with activation lock. ... and for what it's worth, I like the way it's currently set up.
- newaccount74 3y ago
  > at least one person claims to have forgotten their Apple ID's password I think you can reset your Apple ID password with the device password (unless you already wiped the device).
  - Ancapistani 3y ago
    That particular situation is even more complicated when you dig into it. The MBP was originally enrolled in the contracting agency's MDM system. They discontinued that, removed it, and it was enrolled in my employer's system. A few months after that person left, it was removed from my employer's system. The MBP wants an MDM key: Enter your MDM key to activate this device. We can't provide that because it was removed from my employer's MDM system. As a fallback, the Apple ID and password of the account previously used would work: This Mac is linked to an Apple ID. Enter the Apple ID and password that was previously used with this Mac. j•••••@icloud.com We can't provide that because even after tracking down the machine's previous user, they claim to not recall the password. They tried to reset their password, but the password reset email was sent to... their iCloud account, which they can't access. At this point, the only available option is the recovery process through Apple, which requires the original purchase receipt (including serial number!). I'm not sure if it's because of the agency's policy or Apple's, but the agency said they can only do that if they have it physically in their hands at the time. So, in short, that particular MBP is a brick unless and until it's shipped from my colleague's desk in Argentina to the agency's headquarters - then they should be able to unlock it. Finally, consider the value of the time involved here. My colleague estimates he's spent eight hours trying to get it unlocked. That was in coordination with the IT folks at both my employer and the contracting agency - so figure a total of ~30 hours burned so far. Based on the average salary of a "software engineer"[0], 40 hours per week and 50 weeks per year, we've spent $1,728.84 already on a dead laptop[1] and haven't been able to get it working. That's already enough to buy a new machine with the same specs as this one. It quickly gets to the point where a smart company will just "throw it away" and buy a new one... because it's cheaper. 0: https://www.indeed.com/career/software-engineer/salaries https://www.indeed.com/career/software-engineer/salaries 1: $115,256 per year / 40 hours per week / 50 weeks per year = $57.628 / hour $57.628 / hour * 30 hours = $1,728.84