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I believe Zig is capable of this in a primitive way, and they got there by piggy-backing on LLVM development that Apple has contributed to. There's absolutely

by audunw 3y ago

I believe Zig is capable of this in a primitive way, and they got there by piggy-backing on LLVM development that Apple has contributed to. There's absolutely nothing Apple is doing to prevent you from developing on iOS from Windows or Linux. Much of the open source development they're doing is making it easier in theory. But in practice, there's just not enough people willing and interesting in putting in the work to set it up. Most iOS developers would just rather use the official tools. And why should Apple put in lots of extra work just to let people develop from other platforms? That's just never going to happen.

andsoitis 3y ago
some people ascribe hostility when instead they should infer indifference. if you have an activist mind, you over index on confirmation bias.
- apatheticonion 3y ago
  I don't know, considering that the only reason you can't compile an application targetting MacOS from your Linux CI/CD is a license that disallows the use of certain MacOS libraries from being used outside of MacOS - combined with Apple's history of aggressively ring-fencing their users, it's understandable that engineers would feel that it's deliberate. If you copy those libraries illegally to Linux, you can build for MacOS from Linux - so either Apple feels indifferent towards engineers building for MacOS or they want everyone to buy a Mac and compile release software locally. What worse is Apple doesn't provide any server-specific hardware/software for automation - so it really does feel like Apple expects people to build release software on MacBook Pros or something.
  - Someone 3y ago
    > a license that disallows the use of certain MacOS libraries from being used outside of MacOS It doesn’t make a big difference in practice, but is there such a clause in their license? I thought the limitation was on Apple hardware. If so, you can build on Linux running on a Mac mini, for example.
    - apatheticonion 3y ago
      I believe it's a) on Mac hardware and b) on MacOS (or a VM running on top of MacOS - can be any OS if virtualized) The same terms cover usage of things like Rosetta 2, which cannot be used on Asahi Linux despite Linux running on Mac hardware.
- flangola7 3y ago
  Everyone should have an activist mindset.
floomk 3y ago
where can i find a distribution of xcodebuild for linux or windows?
jayd16 3y ago
Where do you get the idea that most iOS devs prefer Apple? It's not true for any other type of development so are you arguing that Apple fans self sort to iOS devs? I would love to use Linux build machines but the xcode requirements make it a non-starter...and its not for lack of effort.
floomk 3y ago
Build servers are a thing, and using a mac as a build node is hilariously complicated and unstable when compared to linux. When my developers push to git the android app is built & tested & uploaded to the store automatically. We also have this working for iOS but it requires a mac in a closet that needs manual maintenance every month or so when apple breaks something again. The linux servers are generally hands-off. Also, android builds are about 10x faster because they run on a machine with 128gb ram and a big cpu which isn't even possible with a mac (and even if it was, I'm sure apple would charge an insane amount for it).

by audunw 3y ago

andsoitis 3y ago

some people ascribe hostility when instead they should infer indifference. if you have an activist mind, you over index on confirmation bias.

apatheticonion 3y ago
I don't know, considering that the only reason you can't compile an application targetting MacOS from your Linux CI/CD is a license that disallows the use of certain MacOS libraries from being used outside of MacOS - combined with Apple's history of aggressively ring-fencing their users, it's understandable that engineers would feel that it's deliberate. If you copy those libraries illegally to Linux, you can build for MacOS from Linux - so either Apple feels indifferent towards engineers building for MacOS or they want everyone to buy a Mac and compile release software locally. What worse is Apple doesn't provide any server-specific hardware/software for automation - so it really does feel like Apple expects people to build release software on MacBook Pros or something.
- Someone 3y ago
  > a license that disallows the use of certain MacOS libraries from being used outside of MacOS It doesn’t make a big difference in practice, but is there such a clause in their license? I thought the limitation was on Apple hardware. If so, you can build on Linux running on a Mac mini, for example.
  - apatheticonion 3y ago
    I believe it's a) on Mac hardware and b) on MacOS (or a VM running on top of MacOS - can be any OS if virtualized) The same terms cover usage of things like Rosetta 2, which cannot be used on Asahi Linux despite Linux running on Mac hardware.
flangola7 3y ago
Everyone should have an activist mindset.

floomk 3y ago

where can i find a distribution of xcodebuild for linux or windows?

jayd16 3y ago

Where do you get the idea that most iOS devs prefer Apple? It's not true for any other type of development so are you arguing that Apple fans self sort to iOS devs? I would love to use Linux build machines but the xcode requirements make it a non-starter...and its not for lack of effort.

floomk 3y ago

Build servers are a thing, and using a mac as a build node is hilariously complicated and unstable when compared to linux. When my developers push to git the android app is built & tested & uploaded to the store automatically. We also have this working for iOS but it requires a mac in a closet that needs manual maintenance every month or so when apple breaks something again. The linux servers are generally hands-off. Also, android builds are about 10x faster because they run on a machine with 128gb ram and a big cpu which isn't even possible with a mac (and even if it was, I'm sure apple would charge an insane amount for it).