4 ms·

> I think if you try to define what was interpreted by "papers" in a pre-digital context you would conclude it is sufficiently analogous to many things in our m

> I think if you try to define what was interpreted by "papers" in a pre-digital context you would conclude it is sufficiently analogous to many things in our modern world. By "papers" they likely meant diaries, personal mail, accounting logs, ship manifests, personal inventories, order histories, receipts for travel. All things which may have been written down on a piece of paper which are now logged on our phones. Considering data digital as papers is perfectly reasonable but the government still isn't searching or seizures your papers. They're buying someone elses "papers".

lukeschlather 3y ago
This whole concept that "oh a private company has stolen my papers, well that's not a problem" doesn't seem to reflect a strict textual reading of the 4th amendment.
- wnevets 3y ago
  But the private company isn't stealing your papers, they're recording their own.
Retric 3y ago
A doctor can hold your papers even if they created them and you’re unaware they exist. Why wouldn’t this apply to metadata about you? It’s just as much your information as the results of a cholesterol test.
- wnevets 3y ago
  Do you believe your cholesterol test results are protected by the 4th?
  - Retric 3y ago
    Personally yes though the courts disagree except under HIPPA police need a search warrant to get them. So culturally we do think they should be even if the legal system disagrees.
    - wnevets 3y ago
      The only thing my original comment only talks about what is protected by 4th amendment. If your test results aren't protected by the 4th, why bring them up?
      - Retric 3y ago
        I think it’s covered by the 4th amendment based on the words as written and the intent at the time of writing it. So, yes I absolutely think the 4th amendment protects such documents. The Supreme Court has uses a narrower definition. That’s doesn’t mean they are correct but the justice system isn’t actually based on the constitution directly it’s based on past rulings by the Supreme Court. My bringing up HIPPA was simply pointing out that even though the legal system doesn’t protect them based on the 4th, it does protect them. Further the reason this part of HIPPA exists is the same reason the 4th was written.

lukeschlather 3y ago

This whole concept that "oh a private company has stolen my papers, well that's not a problem" doesn't seem to reflect a strict textual reading of the 4th amendment.

wnevets 3y ago
But the private company isn't stealing your papers, they're recording their own.

Retric 3y ago

A doctor can hold your papers even if they created them and you’re unaware they exist. Why wouldn’t this apply to metadata about you? It’s just as much your information as the results of a cholesterol test.

wnevets 3y ago
Do you believe your cholesterol test results are protected by the 4th?
- Retric 3y ago
  Personally yes though the courts disagree except under HIPPA police need a search warrant to get them. So culturally we do think they should be even if the legal system disagrees.
  - wnevets 3y ago
    The only thing my original comment only talks about what is protected by 4th amendment. If your test results aren't protected by the 4th, why bring them up?
    - Retric 3y ago
      I think it’s covered by the 4th amendment based on the words as written and the intent at the time of writing it. So, yes I absolutely think the 4th amendment protects such documents. The Supreme Court has uses a narrower definition. That’s doesn’t mean they are correct but the justice system isn’t actually based on the constitution directly it’s based on past rulings by the Supreme Court. My bringing up HIPPA was simply pointing out that even though the legal system doesn’t protect them based on the 4th, it does protect them. Further the reason this part of HIPPA exists is the same reason the 4th was written.