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> http://docs.python.org/release/3.0.1/whatsnew/3.0.html#performance http://docs.python.org/release/3.0.1/whatsnew/3.0.html#perfo... The thread is about 3.3, s

> http://docs.python.org/release/3.0.1/whatsnew/3.0.html#performance http://docs.python.org/release/3.0.1/whatsnew/3.0.html#perfo... The thread is about 3.3, so you link to a 3.0.1 release note? That is three years old. > literally billions of dollars will be wasted changing every single print keyword statement to a print function I'd love to see the math on this, especially because I did it in a matter of minutes across all of my code.

ramanujan 15y ago
> 3 years old I'm pretty sure they'd have announced it if Python 3 ever got faster than Python 2. But this is not mentioned in the 3.1, 3.2, or 3.3 notes on performance: http://docs.python.org/dev/whatsnew/3.1.html#optimizations http://docs.python.org/dev/whatsnew/3.2.html#optimizations http://docs.python.org/dev/whatsnew/3.3.html#optimizations > see the math That one is easy. The Python 3 conversion is a serious project for core devs at Django and Numpy. Check out their mailing lists about what this takes/took. http://blog.jarrodmillman.com/2009/01/when-will-numpy-and-scipy-migrate-to.html http://blog.jarrodmillman.com/2009/01/when-will-numpy-and-sc... While the above procedure of using the 2to3 tool works relatively for pure Python code, there is no automatic conversion tool for extension code. NumPy is mostly written in C and makes extensive use of the Python C-API. So converting NumPy will require much more than running the 2to3 tool. https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/faq/install/#can-i-use-django-with-python-3 https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/faq/install/#can-i-use... ... it will be a while before most Python software catches up and is able to run on Python 3.0. For larger Python- based software like Django, the transition is expected to take at least a year or two (since it involves dropping support for older Python releases and so must be done gradually). A "year or two" of the core Django team's time is easily several million bucks. Multiply by the Python codebases of every company on this list [1], and everyone on github, and every egg out there, and we are talking billions for the conversion. [1] http://wiki.python.org/moin/OrganizationsUsingPython http://wiki.python.org/moin/OrganizationsUsingPython
- ldite 15y ago
  > I'm pretty sure they'd have announced it if Python 3 ever got faster than Python 2. According to this blog post, 3.2 performance now exceeds 2.6 and 2.7, using the same pystone benchmark that the 3.0 release notes refer to: http://www.levigross.com/post/2340736877/pystone-benchmark-on-2-6-2-7-3-2 http://www.levigross.com/post/2340736877/pystone-benchmark-o...
  - sb 15y ago
    Supporting your statement: I am positive that Python 3 could be a lot faster than Python 2. If people are interested in what's possible, they should follow the corresponding mailing list (python-dev).
  - temphn 15y ago
    From the full article, "Python 3.2 [beta] looks promising coming out just a little faster than Python 2.7.". This same article has PyPy coming in at 3 times as fast as Python 3.2 and Python 2.7 on the pystone benchmark, but if you have used PyPy it is not fast. Looks like we need another benchmark. Does anyone have the Python 2 code from the Shootout? It seems to have been removed so that you can no longer compare Python 3 to Python 2 directly. http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u64q/benchmark.php?test=all&lang=python3&lang2=yarv http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u64q/benchmark.php?test=al...
- jacobian 15y ago
  > A "year or two" of the core Django team's time is easily several million bucks. Ahhhahaha, ahhhahahahahahahahahaha! Good lord I wish this was true!
  - temphn 15y ago
    https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/internals/committers/ https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/internals/committers/ Jacob, there look like about 20 or more programmers on that page. At even $100k per programmer, isn't that about $2.4 million? And isn't the number much more than that given that you are among the most skilled engineers?

ramanujan 15y ago

> 3 years old I'm pretty sure they'd have announced it if Python 3 ever got faster than Python 2. But this is not mentioned in the 3.1, 3.2, or 3.3 notes on performance: http://docs.python.org/dev/whatsnew/3.1.html#optimizations http://docs.python.org/dev/whatsnew/3.2.html#optimizations http://docs.python.org/dev/whatsnew/3.3.html#optimizations > see the math That one is easy. The Python 3 conversion is a serious project for core devs at Django and Numpy. Check out their mailing lists about what this takes/took. http://blog.jarrodmillman.com/2009/01/when-will-numpy-and-scipy-migrate-to.html http://blog.jarrodmillman.com/2009/01/when-will-numpy-and-sc... While the above procedure of using the 2to3 tool works relatively for pure Python code, there is no automatic conversion tool for extension code. NumPy is mostly written in C and makes extensive use of the Python C-API. So converting NumPy will require much more than running the 2to3 tool. https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/faq/install/#can-i-use-django-with-python-3 https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/faq/install/#can-i-use... ... it will be a while before most Python software catches up and is able to run on Python 3.0. For larger Python- based software like Django, the transition is expected to take at least a year or two (since it involves dropping support for older Python releases and so must be done gradually). A "year or two" of the core Django team's time is easily several million bucks. Multiply by the Python codebases of every company on this list [1], and everyone on github, and every egg out there, and we are talking billions for the conversion. [1] http://wiki.python.org/moin/OrganizationsUsingPython http://wiki.python.org/moin/OrganizationsUsingPython

ldite 15y ago
> I'm pretty sure they'd have announced it if Python 3 ever got faster than Python 2. According to this blog post, 3.2 performance now exceeds 2.6 and 2.7, using the same pystone benchmark that the 3.0 release notes refer to: http://www.levigross.com/post/2340736877/pystone-benchmark-on-2-6-2-7-3-2 http://www.levigross.com/post/2340736877/pystone-benchmark-o...
- sb 15y ago
  Supporting your statement: I am positive that Python 3 could be a lot faster than Python 2. If people are interested in what's possible, they should follow the corresponding mailing list (python-dev).
- temphn 15y ago
  From the full article, "Python 3.2 [beta] looks promising coming out just a little faster than Python 2.7.". This same article has PyPy coming in at 3 times as fast as Python 3.2 and Python 2.7 on the pystone benchmark, but if you have used PyPy it is not fast. Looks like we need another benchmark. Does anyone have the Python 2 code from the Shootout? It seems to have been removed so that you can no longer compare Python 3 to Python 2 directly. http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u64q/benchmark.php?test=all&lang=python3&lang2=yarv http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u64q/benchmark.php?test=al...
jacobian 15y ago
> A "year or two" of the core Django team's time is easily several million bucks. Ahhhahaha, ahhhahahahahahahahahaha! Good lord I wish this was true!
- temphn 15y ago
  https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/internals/committers/ https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/internals/committers/ Jacob, there look like about 20 or more programmers on that page. At even $100k per programmer, isn't that about $2.4 million? And isn't the number much more than that given that you are among the most skilled engineers?