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Oh gosh, the good old army and it's effective measurements techniques. I remember wanting to be a military officer after undergrad and getting disqualified at M

Oh gosh, the good old army and it's effective measurements techniques. I remember wanting to be a military officer after undergrad and getting disqualified at MEPS for a nonsense issue (which I'll omit for privacy) and the guy next to be getting green lit to continue processing with the Marines with a ...wait for it... 11/100 on the ASVAB.

enkid 3y ago
Officer vs enlisted has very different recruitment criteria.
jeffbee 3y ago
I don’t think you can fail the ASVAB? If you score 11 you will simply become a rifleman.
- weatherlight 3y ago
  I got a score of 96 on my ASVAB and made the decision to pursue a career in Infantry as an MOS 11-B after completing OSUT. As a highlight, I had the opportunity to attend Airborne School, which was an incredible experience. At that time, when I was 20 years old, the Army offered a substantial $60,000 signing bonus, the highest among all branches (save the Navy). Although I did explore the possibility of joining the Navy, they turned me down due to my GED qualification. Fast forward to today, at 39 years old, I can honestly say that despite some challenges with my lower back, I have absolutely no regrets about the path I chose.
  - ryanchants 3y ago
    99 ASVAB, 132 GT score. Went 0311(rifleman), and eventually 0313(LAV Crewman). High ASVAB scores in the infantry are more common than people think. My recruiter tried to push me to computer networking, but I had already done that in real life, and wanted to try something I couldn't do in the real world.
    - throw2132490132 3y ago
      > but I had already done that in real life, and wanted to try something I couldn't do in the real world. Would you mind answering how old you were when you went in?
      - ryanchants 3y ago
        24.
        throw2132490132 3y ago
        Thank you. It's the kind of thing I fantasize about as a very bored mid-late 20s dev who likes fitness and the outdoors, so datapoints like yours are always interesting.
  - jeffbee 3y ago
    That sounds like a really amazing early life experience. I definitely do not side with people who denigrate military enlistment as beneath intelligent, skilled individuals, a set of people which included my parents at the time (early 1990s).
  - boppo1 3y ago
    Would you recommend it to a young man, given the state of the military today? I'm old for the military (31) but was seriously considering it around 24-26. But I just couldn't get past report after report of the military happily doing obviously stupid/harmful stuff to its own, like burn pits.
    - weatherlight 3y ago
      It's complicated. When I joined, I was single, dirt poor, and it was an obvious way to climb out of poverty. I'm not sure what your situation is, have you considered the National Guard? It's still a massive commitment, but it might just scratch that itch you have there. If you love it, its very easy to go active duty
    - InvaderFizz 3y ago
      Joining is a young man's game. I saw many 25-35 year olds at Basic Training suffer broken bones and dislocated joints. Many more than the 18 year olds. As to recommending it, I do not. There can be greatly positive outcomes, but the risk of injury or death is too high for me to recommend to anyone. Unless it is your way of escaping poverty, which is the story for many veterans, the risk/reward isn't there. I'll leave you with what I tell everyone who asks me in real life: Do I regret it? Sometimes. Would I do it again? Absolutely not. I saw too many of my friends die in a bankers oil war, or a politicians re-election strategy. Take your pick, they're all equally valid.
- InvaderFizz 3y ago
  You can fail. You can't even enlist with a score of 11 without a waiver, and that would be a sight to behold for a score that low. Strangely enough, the minimum score is significantly higher for GED holders[0]. The minimum Army score goes from 31 to 50. 0: https://uniontestprep.com/asvab/blog/minimum-asvab-afqt-score-for-each-branch-of-the-military https://uniontestprep.com/asvab/blog/minimum-asvab-afqt-scor...
  - jeffbee 3y ago
    TIL, then. I know abilities have a range, and some people have a bad day, but my personal impression of that test was that it would be impossible to fail it, as such.
bmiller2 3y ago
Is 11/100 not the almost ideal marine infantryman score?
- Retric 3y ago
  They care about those scores primarily because the army trains people for various jobs and it takes longer to train dumb people for extremely complex jobs especially when you include the possibility of failure. However, even people scoring 1/100 is still someone that graduated high school so it’s not as incompetent as you might think. They just aren’t sending someone like that to flight school.
- bandrami 3y ago
  Oddly USMC combat arms have some of the highest ASVAB scores going in. We're not dumb, just mean.
short_sells_poo 3y ago
Sorry, what is a MEPS and an ASVAB? I'm always mesmerized by the number of acronyms that ex military people throw around.
- colechristensen 3y ago
  ASVAB is a standardized test like the ones you took in school or the SAT or whatever with subject matter appropriate for evaluating military recruits.
  - thewildginger 3y ago
    It's not really like the SAT at all. The SAT is pure academics. >Appropriate for evaluating military recruits Again, not clear if you're trying to be condescending. The ASVAB has logical reasoning portions (order the shapes based on labels of points), mechanical questions, I remember getting asked questions about force distribution of pulleys and tackle, but also questions like volume of a cone, basic trig, knights and knaves questions, what is the name of this screwdriver orientation, what's this engine piece called? ( Camshaft), and now there's even a computer science focused addition the Air Force uses. It's a test that actually tells you about what you know and can understand, and is far more useful than an SAT or ACT exam.
    - colechristensen 3y ago
      > It's not really like the SAT at all. The SAT is pure academics. I mean, it's a test that takes less than an afternoon where you answer questions by filling in bubbles and such. That's quite a lot like the SAT. >The ASVAB has logical reasoning portions (order the shapes based on labels of points), mechanical questions, I remember getting asked questions about force distribution of pulleys and tackle, but also questions like volume of a cone, basic trig, knights and knaves questions, what is the name of this screwdriver orientation, what's this engine piece called? ( Camshaft), and now there's even a computer science focused addition the Air Force uses. Is this not all "subject matter appropriate for evaluating military recruits" ? You may be reading a bit much into what I wrote. My high school had everyone take it to fulfill a state requirement that we take so many standardized tests which gave schools the option of which ones to give. >It's a test that actually tells you about what you know and can understand, and is far more useful than an SAT or ACT exam. Being a bit condescending yourself here. It's a standardized test appropriate for military recruits. For somebody who doesn't know was ASVAB means at all... this would seem a pretty good concise description.
torstenvl 3y ago
The Marine Corps minimum is 35. And it isn't "x/100," i.e., got x questions right and everything else wrong. It's xth percentile, i.e., better than x% of graduating high school seniors.
- 1differential 3y ago
  I actually remember them half-joking about this - it's been years, but I would guess it's not a hard minimum
- imwillofficial 3y ago
  No it isn’t. It’s x/99. Also, it’s 35 today, but waivers are often granted and standards have changed throughout the years. Lowest I’ve seen was 18.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- giantg2 3y ago
  "better than x% of graduating high school seniors." A very easy standard. I think I got a 96 or something like that and I missed a question about what was written on a light bulb (I said lumen which they largely do have, but they wanted watts). Stupid mistake still bugs me even though the score was meaningless.
ke88y 3y ago
> failed MEPS not allowed in... poor ASVAB okay It's the Army, not Harvard College. Anyways, if my anecdotal experience interacting with the military is accurate, the main requirement for being an Officer is enjoying LOTR/super hero/Sparta movies. Being able to do pull-ups or string together coherent sentences are less important. If you want to know what's actually valued in the military, look at the names of recent defense contract startups. That tells you everything you need to know.
- roarcher 3y ago
  > That tells you everything you need to know. Your entire comment is evidence of the contrary.

enkid 3y ago

Officer vs enlisted has very different recruitment criteria.

jeffbee 3y ago

I don’t think you can fail the ASVAB? If you score 11 you will simply become a rifleman.

weatherlight 3y ago
I got a score of 96 on my ASVAB and made the decision to pursue a career in Infantry as an MOS 11-B after completing OSUT. As a highlight, I had the opportunity to attend Airborne School, which was an incredible experience. At that time, when I was 20 years old, the Army offered a substantial $60,000 signing bonus, the highest among all branches (save the Navy). Although I did explore the possibility of joining the Navy, they turned me down due to my GED qualification. Fast forward to today, at 39 years old, I can honestly say that despite some challenges with my lower back, I have absolutely no regrets about the path I chose.
- ryanchants 3y ago
  99 ASVAB, 132 GT score. Went 0311(rifleman), and eventually 0313(LAV Crewman). High ASVAB scores in the infantry are more common than people think. My recruiter tried to push me to computer networking, but I had already done that in real life, and wanted to try something I couldn't do in the real world.
  - throw2132490132 3y ago
    > but I had already done that in real life, and wanted to try something I couldn't do in the real world. Would you mind answering how old you were when you went in?
    - ryanchants 3y ago
      24.
      - throw2132490132 3y ago
        Thank you. It's the kind of thing I fantasize about as a very bored mid-late 20s dev who likes fitness and the outdoors, so datapoints like yours are always interesting.
- jeffbee 3y ago
  That sounds like a really amazing early life experience. I definitely do not side with people who denigrate military enlistment as beneath intelligent, skilled individuals, a set of people which included my parents at the time (early 1990s).
- boppo1 3y ago
  Would you recommend it to a young man, given the state of the military today? I'm old for the military (31) but was seriously considering it around 24-26. But I just couldn't get past report after report of the military happily doing obviously stupid/harmful stuff to its own, like burn pits.
  - weatherlight 3y ago
    It's complicated. When I joined, I was single, dirt poor, and it was an obvious way to climb out of poverty. I'm not sure what your situation is, have you considered the National Guard? It's still a massive commitment, but it might just scratch that itch you have there. If you love it, its very easy to go active duty
  - InvaderFizz 3y ago
    Joining is a young man's game. I saw many 25-35 year olds at Basic Training suffer broken bones and dislocated joints. Many more than the 18 year olds. As to recommending it, I do not. There can be greatly positive outcomes, but the risk of injury or death is too high for me to recommend to anyone. Unless it is your way of escaping poverty, which is the story for many veterans, the risk/reward isn't there. I'll leave you with what I tell everyone who asks me in real life: Do I regret it? Sometimes. Would I do it again? Absolutely not. I saw too many of my friends die in a bankers oil war, or a politicians re-election strategy. Take your pick, they're all equally valid.
InvaderFizz 3y ago
You can fail. You can't even enlist with a score of 11 without a waiver, and that would be a sight to behold for a score that low. Strangely enough, the minimum score is significantly higher for GED holders[0]. The minimum Army score goes from 31 to 50. 0: https://uniontestprep.com/asvab/blog/minimum-asvab-afqt-score-for-each-branch-of-the-military https://uniontestprep.com/asvab/blog/minimum-asvab-afqt-scor...
- jeffbee 3y ago
  TIL, then. I know abilities have a range, and some people have a bad day, but my personal impression of that test was that it would be impossible to fail it, as such.

bmiller2 3y ago

Is 11/100 not the almost ideal marine infantryman score?

Retric 3y ago
They care about those scores primarily because the army trains people for various jobs and it takes longer to train dumb people for extremely complex jobs especially when you include the possibility of failure. However, even people scoring 1/100 is still someone that graduated high school so it’s not as incompetent as you might think. They just aren’t sending someone like that to flight school.
bandrami 3y ago
Oddly USMC combat arms have some of the highest ASVAB scores going in. We're not dumb, just mean.

short_sells_poo 3y ago

Sorry, what is a MEPS and an ASVAB? I'm always mesmerized by the number of acronyms that ex military people throw around.

colechristensen 3y ago
ASVAB is a standardized test like the ones you took in school or the SAT or whatever with subject matter appropriate for evaluating military recruits.
- thewildginger 3y ago
  It's not really like the SAT at all. The SAT is pure academics. >Appropriate for evaluating military recruits Again, not clear if you're trying to be condescending. The ASVAB has logical reasoning portions (order the shapes based on labels of points), mechanical questions, I remember getting asked questions about force distribution of pulleys and tackle, but also questions like volume of a cone, basic trig, knights and knaves questions, what is the name of this screwdriver orientation, what's this engine piece called? ( Camshaft), and now there's even a computer science focused addition the Air Force uses. It's a test that actually tells you about what you know and can understand, and is far more useful than an SAT or ACT exam.
  - colechristensen 3y ago
    > It's not really like the SAT at all. The SAT is pure academics. I mean, it's a test that takes less than an afternoon where you answer questions by filling in bubbles and such. That's quite a lot like the SAT. >The ASVAB has logical reasoning portions (order the shapes based on labels of points), mechanical questions, I remember getting asked questions about force distribution of pulleys and tackle, but also questions like volume of a cone, basic trig, knights and knaves questions, what is the name of this screwdriver orientation, what's this engine piece called? ( Camshaft), and now there's even a computer science focused addition the Air Force uses. Is this not all "subject matter appropriate for evaluating military recruits" ? You may be reading a bit much into what I wrote. My high school had everyone take it to fulfill a state requirement that we take so many standardized tests which gave schools the option of which ones to give. >It's a test that actually tells you about what you know and can understand, and is far more useful than an SAT or ACT exam. Being a bit condescending yourself here. It's a standardized test appropriate for military recruits. For somebody who doesn't know was ASVAB means at all... this would seem a pretty good concise description.

torstenvl 3y ago

The Marine Corps minimum is 35. And it isn't "x/100," i.e., got x questions right and everything else wrong. It's xth percentile, i.e., better than x% of graduating high school seniors.

1differential 3y ago
I actually remember them half-joking about this - it's been years, but I would guess it's not a hard minimum
imwillofficial 3y ago
No it isn’t. It’s x/99. Also, it’s 35 today, but waivers are often granted and standards have changed throughout the years. Lowest I’ve seen was 18.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
giantg2 3y ago
"better than x% of graduating high school seniors." A very easy standard. I think I got a 96 or something like that and I missed a question about what was written on a light bulb (I said lumen which they largely do have, but they wanted watts). Stupid mistake still bugs me even though the score was meaningless.

ke88y 3y ago

> failed MEPS not allowed in... poor ASVAB okay It's the Army, not Harvard College. Anyways, if my anecdotal experience interacting with the military is accurate, the main requirement for being an Officer is enjoying LOTR/super hero/Sparta movies. Being able to do pull-ups or string together coherent sentences are less important. If you want to know what's actually valued in the military, look at the names of recent defense contract startups. That tells you everything you need to know.

roarcher 3y ago
> That tells you everything you need to know. Your entire comment is evidence of the contrary.