3 ms·

Anything that I say will be misconstrued as conspiracy theory. Suffice to say this information is incorrect, and there is a growing snowball of evidence to sugg

Anything that I say will be misconstrued as conspiracy theory. Suffice to say this information is incorrect, and there is a growing snowball of evidence to suggest so. I for one do not trust the American Heart Association - they are a bunch of crooks funded by lobbyists, big agriculture and massive conglomerates. They got their start helping Proctor and Gamble market Crisco (poison in a tub) as being healthier than animal fats. In the 60s they got in bed with the tobacco industry to prove that cigarettes were not bad for you. A lot of the "studies" we have right now which paint saturated fats in a bad light are not true to the mission of science.

gruez 3y ago
>Suffice to say this information is incorrect, and there is a growing snowball of evidence to suggest so. Can you present some examples of this "growing snowball of evidence"? >A lot of the "studies" we have right now which paint saturated fats in a bad light are not true to the mission of science. What makes you think that? Is it just based on funding/affiliations alone? Or do you have specific methodological concerns about the studies that they use, that your studies don't have?
- hammock 3y ago
  There is an alternative rail of nutritional science, you might call it the alt-right of nutritional science, that is taking a second look at the research (or dearth of such) that was used to develop the current mainstream canon of saturated fats bad, statins good, etc.. and presenting a competing case - and cause(s) of obesity, metabolic syndrome, high cholesterol, CV disease, etc. If you read enough you sort of absorb it, someone else can cite some good reviews I'm sure. I will just drop a few names here if you want to investigate - Rhonda Patrick, Eric Berg, Peter Attia... Edit: here is a published review, just the tip of the iceberg https://www.jacc.org/doi/10.1016/j.jacc.2020.05.077 https://www.jacc.org/doi/10.1016/j.jacc.2020.05.077
  - whalesalad 3y ago
    Add Andrew Huberman to the list!
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - gruez 3y ago
    >Edit: here is a published review, just the tip of the iceberg https://www.jacc.org/doi/10.1016/j.jacc.2020.05.077 https://www.jacc.org/doi/10.1016/j.jacc.2020.05.077 I skimmed the review and the conclusion seems to be "saturated fat from certain sources probably isn't bad for you"[1]. If we take that at face value, and go back to the original question of whether to replace vegetable oil with oils high in saturated fats (eg. palm oil or ghee), I think the answer is still "no". The article talks specifically talks about foods like whole fat dairy (not pure butter), unprocessed red meat (not lard) and dark chocolate (not palm oil). [1] https://www.jacc.org/cms/asset/ee10bd12-77af-4f74-b725-7ba7717c7122/gr2.jpg https://www.jacc.org/cms/asset/ee10bd12-77af-4f74-b725-7ba77...
    - hammock 3y ago
      “Just the tip of the iceberg” is the operative term there
      - gruez 3y ago
        "Tip of the iceberg" for what? That saturated fats isn't always bad for you? I think that was adequately proven in the original study. As for whether ingesting oils high in saturated fats is good for you, or whether you should be replacing your other fat consumption with them, those aren't even addressed by the study. If that's really "the tip of the iceberg", that doesn't bode well for the rest of the studies, unless for whatever reason you're withholding the strongest studies.
        valval 3y ago
        What kind of fats do you think your ancestors have eaten for hundreds of thousands of years?
- whalesalad 3y ago
  Disclaimer: I have spent a lot of time working in ag-tech (spent many years at FarmLogs, a YC company) and I have a lot of experience in this space (industrial agriculture at massive massive scale) Here is a nice summary post that links to a handful of studies that disprove the theory that saturated fats are bad: https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/5-studies-on-saturated-fat https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/5-studies-on-saturated-... Here is a great video that discusses the way glyphosate is killing us: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aw16LPVnNco https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aw16LPVnNco Here is a pretty exhaustive explanation of why the American Heart Association is full of shit: https://www.reddit.com/r/nursing/comments/rqhp7t/the_american_heart_association_the_most_shameless/ https://www.reddit.com/r/nursing/comments/rqhp7t/the_america... Meta-analysis of prospective cohort studies evaluating the association of saturated fat with cardiovascular disease https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20071648/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20071648/ > Conclusions: A meta-analysis of prospective epidemiologic studies showed that there is no significant evidence for concluding that dietary saturated fat is associated with an increased risk of CHD or CVD. More data are needed to elucidate whether CVD risks are likely to be influenced by the specific nutrients used to replace saturated fat. Evidence from randomised controlled trials did not support the introduction of dietary fat guidelines in 1977 and 1983: a systematic review and meta-analysis https://openheart.bmj.com/content/2/1/e000196.short?rss=1&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%253A+openheart%252Fcurrent+%2528Open+Heart+current+issue%2529&g=w_openheart_current_tab https://openheart.bmj.com/content/2/1/e000196.short?rss=1&ut... > Conclusion: Dietary recommendations were introduced for 220 million US and 56 million UK citizens by 1983, in the absence of supporting evidence from RCTs. Saturated fat is not the major issue https://www.bmj.com/content/347/bmj.f6340.full https://www.bmj.com/content/347/bmj.f6340.full A systematic review of the evidence supporting a causal link between dietary factors and coronary heart disease https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19364995/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19364995/ > Insufficient evidence (< or =2 criteria) of association is present for intake of supplementary vitamin E and ascorbic acid (vitamin C); saturated and polyunsaturated fatty acids; total fat; alpha-linolenic acid; meat; eggs; and milk. America’s most widely consumed oil causes genetic changes in the brain Soybean oil linked to metabolic and neurological changes in mice https://news.ucr.edu/articles/2020/01/17/americas-most-widely-consumed-oil-causes-genetic-changes-brain https://news.ucr.edu/articles/2020/01/17/americas-most-widel... Soybean Oil Is More Obesogenic and Diabetogenic than Coconut Oil and Fructose in Mouse: Potential Role for the Liver https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0132672 https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal...
vhcr 3y ago
You like your bacon fat, we get it, you're still a quack.
- whalesalad 3y ago
  https://www.zeroacre.com/blog/are-seed-oils-toxic https://www.zeroacre.com/blog/are-seed-oils-toxic
  - vhcr 3y ago
    https://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/handle/10665/366301/9789240061668-eng.pdf https://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/handle/10665/366301/9789...
    - whalesalad 3y ago
      this is a meta-analysis of carefully selected studies.
      - gruez 3y ago
        What makes you think this list of studies is "carefully selected"? What makes your studies not carefully selected? In other words, if anti-saturated fat people levy the same accusation against the pro-saturated fat studies, why should I believe the pro-saturated fat side over the anti-saturated fat side?
        whalesalad 3y ago
        sorry dawg at this point it is exhausting to argue with you. the facts are out there.
- valval 3y ago
  We don’t - pigs are fed omega 6s and their fat is unfit for humans to eat because of that. Stick to ruminant fats, preferably grass fed and grass finished.

gruez 3y ago

>Suffice to say this information is incorrect, and there is a growing snowball of evidence to suggest so. Can you present some examples of this "growing snowball of evidence"? >A lot of the "studies" we have right now which paint saturated fats in a bad light are not true to the mission of science. What makes you think that? Is it just based on funding/affiliations alone? Or do you have specific methodological concerns about the studies that they use, that your studies don't have?

hammock 3y ago
There is an alternative rail of nutritional science, you might call it the alt-right of nutritional science, that is taking a second look at the research (or dearth of such) that was used to develop the current mainstream canon of saturated fats bad, statins good, etc.. and presenting a competing case - and cause(s) of obesity, metabolic syndrome, high cholesterol, CV disease, etc. If you read enough you sort of absorb it, someone else can cite some good reviews I'm sure. I will just drop a few names here if you want to investigate - Rhonda Patrick, Eric Berg, Peter Attia... Edit: here is a published review, just the tip of the iceberg https://www.jacc.org/doi/10.1016/j.jacc.2020.05.077 https://www.jacc.org/doi/10.1016/j.jacc.2020.05.077
- whalesalad 3y ago
  Add Andrew Huberman to the list!
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- gruez 3y ago
  >Edit: here is a published review, just the tip of the iceberg https://www.jacc.org/doi/10.1016/j.jacc.2020.05.077 https://www.jacc.org/doi/10.1016/j.jacc.2020.05.077 I skimmed the review and the conclusion seems to be "saturated fat from certain sources probably isn't bad for you"[1]. If we take that at face value, and go back to the original question of whether to replace vegetable oil with oils high in saturated fats (eg. palm oil or ghee), I think the answer is still "no". The article talks specifically talks about foods like whole fat dairy (not pure butter), unprocessed red meat (not lard) and dark chocolate (not palm oil). [1] https://www.jacc.org/cms/asset/ee10bd12-77af-4f74-b725-7ba7717c7122/gr2.jpg https://www.jacc.org/cms/asset/ee10bd12-77af-4f74-b725-7ba77...
  - hammock 3y ago
    “Just the tip of the iceberg” is the operative term there
    - gruez 3y ago
      "Tip of the iceberg" for what? That saturated fats isn't always bad for you? I think that was adequately proven in the original study. As for whether ingesting oils high in saturated fats is good for you, or whether you should be replacing your other fat consumption with them, those aren't even addressed by the study. If that's really "the tip of the iceberg", that doesn't bode well for the rest of the studies, unless for whatever reason you're withholding the strongest studies.
      - valval 3y ago
        What kind of fats do you think your ancestors have eaten for hundreds of thousands of years?
whalesalad 3y ago
Disclaimer: I have spent a lot of time working in ag-tech (spent many years at FarmLogs, a YC company) and I have a lot of experience in this space (industrial agriculture at massive massive scale) Here is a nice summary post that links to a handful of studies that disprove the theory that saturated fats are bad: https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/5-studies-on-saturated-fat https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/5-studies-on-saturated-... Here is a great video that discusses the way glyphosate is killing us: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aw16LPVnNco https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aw16LPVnNco Here is a pretty exhaustive explanation of why the American Heart Association is full of shit: https://www.reddit.com/r/nursing/comments/rqhp7t/the_american_heart_association_the_most_shameless/ https://www.reddit.com/r/nursing/comments/rqhp7t/the_america... Meta-analysis of prospective cohort studies evaluating the association of saturated fat with cardiovascular disease https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20071648/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20071648/ > Conclusions: A meta-analysis of prospective epidemiologic studies showed that there is no significant evidence for concluding that dietary saturated fat is associated with an increased risk of CHD or CVD. More data are needed to elucidate whether CVD risks are likely to be influenced by the specific nutrients used to replace saturated fat. Evidence from randomised controlled trials did not support the introduction of dietary fat guidelines in 1977 and 1983: a systematic review and meta-analysis https://openheart.bmj.com/content/2/1/e000196.short?rss=1&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%253A+openheart%252Fcurrent+%2528Open+Heart+current+issue%2529&g=w_openheart_current_tab https://openheart.bmj.com/content/2/1/e000196.short?rss=1&ut... > Conclusion: Dietary recommendations were introduced for 220 million US and 56 million UK citizens by 1983, in the absence of supporting evidence from RCTs. Saturated fat is not the major issue https://www.bmj.com/content/347/bmj.f6340.full https://www.bmj.com/content/347/bmj.f6340.full A systematic review of the evidence supporting a causal link between dietary factors and coronary heart disease https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19364995/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19364995/ > Insufficient evidence (< or =2 criteria) of association is present for intake of supplementary vitamin E and ascorbic acid (vitamin C); saturated and polyunsaturated fatty acids; total fat; alpha-linolenic acid; meat; eggs; and milk. America’s most widely consumed oil causes genetic changes in the brain Soybean oil linked to metabolic and neurological changes in mice https://news.ucr.edu/articles/2020/01/17/americas-most-widely-consumed-oil-causes-genetic-changes-brain https://news.ucr.edu/articles/2020/01/17/americas-most-widel... Soybean Oil Is More Obesogenic and Diabetogenic than Coconut Oil and Fructose in Mouse: Potential Role for the Liver https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0132672 https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal...

vhcr 3y ago

You like your bacon fat, we get it, you're still a quack.

whalesalad 3y ago
https://www.zeroacre.com/blog/are-seed-oils-toxic https://www.zeroacre.com/blog/are-seed-oils-toxic
- vhcr 3y ago
  https://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/handle/10665/366301/9789240061668-eng.pdf https://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/handle/10665/366301/9789...
  - whalesalad 3y ago
    this is a meta-analysis of carefully selected studies.
    - gruez 3y ago
      What makes you think this list of studies is "carefully selected"? What makes your studies not carefully selected? In other words, if anti-saturated fat people levy the same accusation against the pro-saturated fat studies, why should I believe the pro-saturated fat side over the anti-saturated fat side?
      - whalesalad 3y ago
        sorry dawg at this point it is exhausting to argue with you. the facts are out there.
valval 3y ago
We don’t - pigs are fed omega 6s and their fat is unfit for humans to eat because of that. Stick to ruminant fats, preferably grass fed and grass finished.