5 ms·

Sort this table by LA. Use/eat oils that have the lowest amount possible. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linoleic_acid#Dietary_sources https://en.wikipedia.org/w

Sort this table by LA. Use/eat oils that have the lowest amount possible. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linoleic_acid#Dietary_sources https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linoleic_acid#Dietary_sources Coconut oil, Butter/Ghee, Olive Oil, Lard...

gruez 3y ago
>Coconut oil, Butter/Ghee, Olive Oil, Lard... The problem is that most of them (minus olive oil) are high in saturated fats, which are also bad. Out of the frying pan, into the fire.
- whalesalad 3y ago
  nah, saturated fats are not bad. that is the myth big ag wants you to believe. people will often look at old photos and wax poetic about how youthful and thin everyone was. why? they were eating saturated fats and not seed oils.
  - gruez 3y ago
    Are you confusing "fats" with "saturated fats"? Fats in general might have been vindicated, but the evidence for saturated fats being bad for you is still pretty strong[1]. Feel free to provide any sources to the contrary. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturated_fat#Association_with_diseases https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturated_fat#Association_with...
    - whalesalad 3y ago
      Anything that I say will be misconstrued as conspiracy theory. Suffice to say this information is incorrect, and there is a growing snowball of evidence to suggest so. I for one do not trust the American Heart Association - they are a bunch of crooks funded by lobbyists, big agriculture and massive conglomerates. They got their start helping Proctor and Gamble market Crisco (poison in a tub) as being healthier than animal fats. In the 60s they got in bed with the tobacco industry to prove that cigarettes were not bad for you. A lot of the "studies" we have right now which paint saturated fats in a bad light are not true to the mission of science.
      - gruez 3y ago
        >Suffice to say this information is incorrect, and there is a growing snowball of evidence to suggest so. Can you present some examples of this "growing snowball of evidence"? >A lot of the "studies" we have right now which paint saturated fats in a bad light are not true to the mission of science. What makes you think that? Is it just based on funding/affiliations alone? Or do you have specific methodological concerns about the studies that they use, that your studies don't have?
        hammock 3y ago
        There is an alternative rail of nutritional science, you might call it the alt-right of nutritional science, that is taking a second look at the research (or dearth of such) that was used to develop the current mainstream canon of saturated fats bad, statins good, etc.. and presenting a competing case - and cause(s) of obesity, metabolic syndrome, high cholesterol, CV disease, etc. If you read enough you sort of absorb it, someone else can cite some good reviews I'm sure. I will just drop a few names here if you want to investigate - Rhonda Patrick, Eric Berg, Peter Attia... Edit: here is a published review, just the tip of the iceberg https://www.jacc.org/doi/10.1016/j.jacc.2020.05.077 https://www.jacc.org/doi/10.1016/j.jacc.2020.05.077
        whalesalad 3y ago
        Add Andrew Huberman to the list!
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
        gruez 3y ago
        >Edit: here is a published review, just the tip of the iceberg https://www.jacc.org/doi/10.1016/j.jacc.2020.05.077 https://www.jacc.org/doi/10.1016/j.jacc.2020.05.077 I skimmed the review and the conclusion seems to be "saturated fat from certain sources probably isn't bad for you"[1]. If we take that at face value, and go back to the original question of whether to replace vegetable oil with oils high in saturated fats (eg. palm oil or ghee), I think the answer is still "no". The article talks specifically talks about foods like whole fat dairy (not pure butter), unprocessed red meat (not lard) and dark chocolate (not palm oil). [1] https://www.jacc.org/cms/asset/ee10bd12-77af-4f74-b725-7ba7717c7122/gr2.jpg https://www.jacc.org/cms/asset/ee10bd12-77af-4f74-b725-7ba77...
stevebmark 3y ago
A double blind, randomized, controlled trial showed that replacing saturated fat with seed oils high in linoleic acid significantly reduced cardiovascular disease and all cause mortality https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/01.CIR.40.1S2.II-1 https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/01.CIR.40.1S2.II-1 Unfortunately the full text of this study isn't on SciHub, but it's a very good study. They assigned veterans to one of two mess halls randomly, and in the experimental group they fed them food with the fat content replaced with corn oil (which is 46:1 omega 6 to 3 ratio). They also did a pre-study to make sure the fat-replaced food was palatable and hard to distinguish from unaltered food higher in saturated fat. The experimental group had significantly lower CVD outcomes and lower all cause mortality. Don't worry about linoleic acid, it's either benign or healthy.
- adrian_b 3y ago
  Like for anything else in nutrition, it is meaningless to say that linoleic acid or any specific kind of oil is healthy or unhealthy. Only when describing the complete daily intake for some category of nutrients it is possible to say whether the quantities that are used are healthy or unhealthy. In most human studies it is pretty much impossible to feed all the participants with exactly the same food and to vary independently various ingredients over long times in such a way as to obtain a reasonably certain conclusion. For instance, in most days around 90% of my daily intake of fatty substances comes from a mixture of 4 oils: 50 mL of extra-virgin olive oil + 20 mL of cold-pressed sunflower oil (required to provide enough linoleic acid and enough vitamin E) + 5 mL Schizochytrium oil (provides enough DHA & EPA omega-3, can be substituted by 10 mL of fish oil, e.g. cod liver oil) + 1 drop of oil containing D3 & K2 vitamins. According to the current knowledge, this mixture of oils is healthy. Nevertheless, it is not possible to say that any of its components, e.g. olive oil or sunflower oil, are healthy in isolation, unless the total daily consumption and the total daily consumption of any other fatty substances are specified.
- valval 3y ago
  Where do you think our ancestors got their linoleic acid intake?
  - 3y ago

gruez 3y ago

>Coconut oil, Butter/Ghee, Olive Oil, Lard... The problem is that most of them (minus olive oil) are high in saturated fats, which are also bad. Out of the frying pan, into the fire.

whalesalad 3y ago
nah, saturated fats are not bad. that is the myth big ag wants you to believe. people will often look at old photos and wax poetic about how youthful and thin everyone was. why? they were eating saturated fats and not seed oils.
- gruez 3y ago
  Are you confusing "fats" with "saturated fats"? Fats in general might have been vindicated, but the evidence for saturated fats being bad for you is still pretty strong[1]. Feel free to provide any sources to the contrary. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturated_fat#Association_with_diseases https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturated_fat#Association_with...
  - whalesalad 3y ago
    Anything that I say will be misconstrued as conspiracy theory. Suffice to say this information is incorrect, and there is a growing snowball of evidence to suggest so. I for one do not trust the American Heart Association - they are a bunch of crooks funded by lobbyists, big agriculture and massive conglomerates. They got their start helping Proctor and Gamble market Crisco (poison in a tub) as being healthier than animal fats. In the 60s they got in bed with the tobacco industry to prove that cigarettes were not bad for you. A lot of the "studies" we have right now which paint saturated fats in a bad light are not true to the mission of science.
    - gruez 3y ago
      >Suffice to say this information is incorrect, and there is a growing snowball of evidence to suggest so. Can you present some examples of this "growing snowball of evidence"? >A lot of the "studies" we have right now which paint saturated fats in a bad light are not true to the mission of science. What makes you think that? Is it just based on funding/affiliations alone? Or do you have specific methodological concerns about the studies that they use, that your studies don't have?
      - hammock 3y ago
        There is an alternative rail of nutritional science, you might call it the alt-right of nutritional science, that is taking a second look at the research (or dearth of such) that was used to develop the current mainstream canon of saturated fats bad, statins good, etc.. and presenting a competing case - and cause(s) of obesity, metabolic syndrome, high cholesterol, CV disease, etc. If you read enough you sort of absorb it, someone else can cite some good reviews I'm sure. I will just drop a few names here if you want to investigate - Rhonda Patrick, Eric Berg, Peter Attia... Edit: here is a published review, just the tip of the iceberg https://www.jacc.org/doi/10.1016/j.jacc.2020.05.077 https://www.jacc.org/doi/10.1016/j.jacc.2020.05.077
        whalesalad 3y ago
        Add Andrew Huberman to the list!
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
        gruez 3y ago
        >Edit: here is a published review, just the tip of the iceberg https://www.jacc.org/doi/10.1016/j.jacc.2020.05.077 https://www.jacc.org/doi/10.1016/j.jacc.2020.05.077 I skimmed the review and the conclusion seems to be "saturated fat from certain sources probably isn't bad for you"[1]. If we take that at face value, and go back to the original question of whether to replace vegetable oil with oils high in saturated fats (eg. palm oil or ghee), I think the answer is still "no". The article talks specifically talks about foods like whole fat dairy (not pure butter), unprocessed red meat (not lard) and dark chocolate (not palm oil). [1] https://www.jacc.org/cms/asset/ee10bd12-77af-4f74-b725-7ba7717c7122/gr2.jpg https://www.jacc.org/cms/asset/ee10bd12-77af-4f74-b725-7ba77...

stevebmark 3y ago

A double blind, randomized, controlled trial showed that replacing saturated fat with seed oils high in linoleic acid significantly reduced cardiovascular disease and all cause mortality https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/01.CIR.40.1S2.II-1 https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/01.CIR.40.1S2.II-1 Unfortunately the full text of this study isn't on SciHub, but it's a very good study. They assigned veterans to one of two mess halls randomly, and in the experimental group they fed them food with the fat content replaced with corn oil (which is 46:1 omega 6 to 3 ratio). They also did a pre-study to make sure the fat-replaced food was palatable and hard to distinguish from unaltered food higher in saturated fat. The experimental group had significantly lower CVD outcomes and lower all cause mortality. Don't worry about linoleic acid, it's either benign or healthy.

adrian_b 3y ago
Like for anything else in nutrition, it is meaningless to say that linoleic acid or any specific kind of oil is healthy or unhealthy. Only when describing the complete daily intake for some category of nutrients it is possible to say whether the quantities that are used are healthy or unhealthy. In most human studies it is pretty much impossible to feed all the participants with exactly the same food and to vary independently various ingredients over long times in such a way as to obtain a reasonably certain conclusion. For instance, in most days around 90% of my daily intake of fatty substances comes from a mixture of 4 oils: 50 mL of extra-virgin olive oil + 20 mL of cold-pressed sunflower oil (required to provide enough linoleic acid and enough vitamin E) + 5 mL Schizochytrium oil (provides enough DHA & EPA omega-3, can be substituted by 10 mL of fish oil, e.g. cod liver oil) + 1 drop of oil containing D3 & K2 vitamins. According to the current knowledge, this mixture of oils is healthy. Nevertheless, it is not possible to say that any of its components, e.g. olive oil or sunflower oil, are healthy in isolation, unless the total daily consumption and the total daily consumption of any other fatty substances are specified.
valval 3y ago
Where do you think our ancestors got their linoleic acid intake?
- 3y ago