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224 points and not single positive comment in the comments, sigh. I think this is awesome, as the Quest Pro is almost on par with the features of the Vision Pr

224 points and not single positive comment in the comments, sigh. I think this is awesome, as the Quest Pro is almost on par with the features of the Vision Pro (except Lidar), e.g. hand & eye tracking + color passthrough. Sure, these might be not of the same quality (especially when it comes to passthrough), but this allows people to verify their experiences/concepts for the Vision Pro before they actually get their hands on one. I don't think that Meta, nor Apple will have a problem with this tbh. Maybe because of the assets/icons used in the HUD, but those can easily be replaced if needed.

yreg 3y ago
This is a great idea even if the hardware was quite different. I honestly can't imagine developing for visionOS armed only with a simulator. And since Apple afaik doesn't have a hardware devkit, this sounds miles better.
- gardaani 3y ago
  Apple Vision Pro hardware dev kits will be available later this year: https://developer.apple.com/visionos/work-with-apple/ https://developer.apple.com/visionos/work-with-apple/
  - yreg 3y ago
    Good to know, thanks.
freedomben 3y ago
You don't think Apple will have a problem with running their OS and software on non Apple hardware? I would expect this to be "fixed" soon.
- outworlder 3y ago
  > You don't think Apple will have a problem with running their OS and software on non Apple hardware? That's not what's happening here. It's just streaming data.
- audunw 3y ago
  This is like fancy VNC. Apple doesn't have any problem with VNC, in fact they explicitly support it. I think Apple can feel fairly safe that the experience will always be so hacky and low quality that it's not going to be a threat to Vision Pro. In the meantime it helps developers get a head start developing for Vision Pro which is only good for Apple.
  - vaxman 3y ago
    They have three trillion reasons to protect their IP from appearing on the lenses of a Meta Quest or an HTC Vive. All it takes is for the wrong person to post on Threads or Twitter and a pontificator to bloviate into the wrong podcast and it all winds up on a Bloomberg terminal. AAPL has a lot riding on this.
  - zmmmmm 3y ago
    If you imagine a scenario where this works well enough that it's a viable alternative to actually buying a Vision Pro for development ... I can forsee it being a problem for them in terms of (a) direct sales - I could easily see shops fitting out their dev team for 1/4 the cost with Quest Pros instead of Vision Pros but more importantly (b) concern that it will lead to crappy apps being developed. That is, devs using non-Apple hardware will naturally curtail what they build to things that actually work in the dev hardware they are using. That means advanced features of the real Vision Pro won't get properly supported (or omitted altogether). Of course, that is still miles away from where this is now. But it seems tantalising that it could possibly go there.
    - Xixi 3y ago
      I don't think in the short term Apple will budge: neither the Vision Pro nor the dev toolkit are available, so lack of apps is probably a larger issue than some apps not utilizing the Vision Pro to its fullest extent. Longer term, we will see...
      - chaostheory 3y ago
        Agree. According to rumors, Apple’s yield on the Vision is only 20%, meaning that out of every 100 coming from the factory only 20 are good enough to meet Apple standards. There are doubts that they can even meet their 400k quota
- saagarjha 3y ago
  This is the simulator, not the actual OS.
bugglebeetle 3y ago
Yeah, it seems fully in the spirit of the “hacker” part of Hacker News. I thought it was cool.
croes 3y ago
Apple has problems with anyone referencing an apple, so I wouldn't count on that.
langsoul-com 3y ago
I think Zuckerberg did mention they already explored the same things. Must have made a conscious decision not to due to production costs. Only Apple can charge a high premium and still have others pay
- monero-xmr 3y ago
  They can charge a premium because they never sacrificed quality in any systemic way (obviously you can comment with your pet issues but the bottom line is that Apple has kept the quality bar very high for decades). That trust is earned and they charge accordingly. Some immediately jump to Harvard MBA teachings that caused such widespread lack of quality, or capitalism, whatever. In my opinion a deep focus on quality is rare in any business. It is very hard to scale and keep in a business’s DNA. One reason small businesses continue to be formed and attract customers (beyond “buy local” pandering) is that solid small businesses are run by dictators that create an entity that is an extension of themselves, sacrificing nothing. Therefore they can charge a premium. Extending that to large companies is very difficult and requires solving an incentives and reputation puzzle to make each layer of the organization focus on quality. I patronize businesses that maintain their quality and I pay for it. Life is too short and I have too much spare cash not to. Apple achieves such standards. You may have to upgrade hardware every few years but that’s part of the price. It’s the “longtermism” mindset that goes against the grain of human behavior. Eating well, working out, maintaining friendships, putting in consistent effort - the fundamentals of quality. These are values that are hard and I try and notice it when anyone does it - people or businesses.
  - as_bntd 3y ago
    Sorry but could you mention some of these other business you talked about?
- astrange 3y ago
  It's cheaper than HoloLens.
  - bob-09 3y ago
throw47474777j 3y ago
> the Quest Pro is almost on par with the features of the Vision Pro (except Lidar) I find this questionable given the reviews people have given Vision Pro. I have used quest pro, and it is pretty good as a high end gaming style headset but nowhere near the experience people describe from Vision Pro.
scyzoryk_xyz 3y ago
I don’t know about how this will play out between them, but I agree that these sorts of hacks are never a bad thing.

yreg 3y ago

This is a great idea even if the hardware was quite different. I honestly can't imagine developing for visionOS armed only with a simulator. And since Apple afaik doesn't have a hardware devkit, this sounds miles better.

gardaani 3y ago
Apple Vision Pro hardware dev kits will be available later this year: https://developer.apple.com/visionos/work-with-apple/ https://developer.apple.com/visionos/work-with-apple/
- yreg 3y ago
  Good to know, thanks.

freedomben 3y ago

You don't think Apple will have a problem with running their OS and software on non Apple hardware? I would expect this to be "fixed" soon.

outworlder 3y ago
> You don't think Apple will have a problem with running their OS and software on non Apple hardware? That's not what's happening here. It's just streaming data.
audunw 3y ago
This is like fancy VNC. Apple doesn't have any problem with VNC, in fact they explicitly support it. I think Apple can feel fairly safe that the experience will always be so hacky and low quality that it's not going to be a threat to Vision Pro. In the meantime it helps developers get a head start developing for Vision Pro which is only good for Apple.
- vaxman 3y ago
  They have three trillion reasons to protect their IP from appearing on the lenses of a Meta Quest or an HTC Vive. All it takes is for the wrong person to post on Threads or Twitter and a pontificator to bloviate into the wrong podcast and it all winds up on a Bloomberg terminal. AAPL has a lot riding on this.
- zmmmmm 3y ago
  If you imagine a scenario where this works well enough that it's a viable alternative to actually buying a Vision Pro for development ... I can forsee it being a problem for them in terms of (a) direct sales - I could easily see shops fitting out their dev team for 1/4 the cost with Quest Pros instead of Vision Pros but more importantly (b) concern that it will lead to crappy apps being developed. That is, devs using non-Apple hardware will naturally curtail what they build to things that actually work in the dev hardware they are using. That means advanced features of the real Vision Pro won't get properly supported (or omitted altogether). Of course, that is still miles away from where this is now. But it seems tantalising that it could possibly go there.
  - Xixi 3y ago
    I don't think in the short term Apple will budge: neither the Vision Pro nor the dev toolkit are available, so lack of apps is probably a larger issue than some apps not utilizing the Vision Pro to its fullest extent. Longer term, we will see...
    - chaostheory 3y ago
      Agree. According to rumors, Apple’s yield on the Vision is only 20%, meaning that out of every 100 coming from the factory only 20 are good enough to meet Apple standards. There are doubts that they can even meet their 400k quota
saagarjha 3y ago
This is the simulator, not the actual OS.

bugglebeetle 3y ago

Yeah, it seems fully in the spirit of the “hacker” part of Hacker News. I thought it was cool.

croes 3y ago

Apple has problems with anyone referencing an apple, so I wouldn't count on that.

langsoul-com 3y ago

I think Zuckerberg did mention they already explored the same things. Must have made a conscious decision not to due to production costs. Only Apple can charge a high premium and still have others pay

monero-xmr 3y ago
They can charge a premium because they never sacrificed quality in any systemic way (obviously you can comment with your pet issues but the bottom line is that Apple has kept the quality bar very high for decades). That trust is earned and they charge accordingly. Some immediately jump to Harvard MBA teachings that caused such widespread lack of quality, or capitalism, whatever. In my opinion a deep focus on quality is rare in any business. It is very hard to scale and keep in a business’s DNA. One reason small businesses continue to be formed and attract customers (beyond “buy local” pandering) is that solid small businesses are run by dictators that create an entity that is an extension of themselves, sacrificing nothing. Therefore they can charge a premium. Extending that to large companies is very difficult and requires solving an incentives and reputation puzzle to make each layer of the organization focus on quality. I patronize businesses that maintain their quality and I pay for it. Life is too short and I have too much spare cash not to. Apple achieves such standards. You may have to upgrade hardware every few years but that’s part of the price. It’s the “longtermism” mindset that goes against the grain of human behavior. Eating well, working out, maintaining friendships, putting in consistent effort - the fundamentals of quality. These are values that are hard and I try and notice it when anyone does it - people or businesses.
- as_bntd 3y ago
  Sorry but could you mention some of these other business you talked about?
astrange 3y ago
It's cheaper than HoloLens.
- bob-09 3y ago

throw47474777j 3y ago

> the Quest Pro is almost on par with the features of the Vision Pro (except Lidar) I find this questionable given the reviews people have given Vision Pro. I have used quest pro, and it is pretty good as a high end gaming style headset but nowhere near the experience people describe from Vision Pro.

scyzoryk_xyz 3y ago

I don’t know about how this will play out between them, but I agree that these sorts of hacks are never a bad thing.