4 ms·

Honestly, as much as this argument has been beaten to death, they just need to allow explicit NSFW content. This is Twitter's edge right now, and Reddit maybe.

Honestly, as much as this argument has been beaten to death, they just need to allow explicit NSFW content. This is Twitter's edge right now, and Reddit maybe. Let people post freely, and they'll return.

paulcole 3y ago
Where does the money come from? I’m assuming it’s more difficult to find ads to run on NSFW content and/or there’s some other reason why monetizing NSFW content is challenging for businesses like Reddit, Tumblr, etc.
- rincebrain 3y ago
  I believe the specific problem they've claimed before is they'll be banned from the Apple App Store if they do that.
  - mmanfrin 3y ago
    Twitter and Reddit both still exist on the app store.
    - philipkglass 3y ago
      Having seen this from the inside, well known platforms get more forgiving treatment from app reviewers even if policies are nominally the same for all apps. If Tumblr launches a new or heavily redesigned app and they have adult content, the review process may block it even if Reddit's app has similarly graphic content.
    - rincebrain 3y ago
      Oh, I know. But they are correct that the policies state that this is the case, even though Tumblr does still have quite a bit of porn, both compliant and not.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
rafark 3y ago
Considering it’s now owned by WordPress it’s very unlikely. Matt mullenweg seems to be very prude (not that it’s a good or bad thing, it’s just a personality I guess). They could capitalize on all the weirdness and discontent from twitter and reddit like zuckerberg is doing.
- colinplamondon 3y ago
  Allowing porn monetizes and aids a probabilistic percentage of revenge porn, child porn, deepfake porn, and human trafficking. Even if a waiver is signed, there's significant duress in many cases. There's a lot of pain and evil enabled by allowing porn to spread on an algorithmic newsfeed.
  - jackblemming 3y ago
    And people can beat people with baseball bats instead of playing baseball. Unless you have quantifiable numbers, no real discussion can be had. In the absence of numbers, I’m for allowing the purchase of baseball bats.
    - BudaDude 3y ago
      From the perspective of advertisers, this analogy is not applicable. It is important to emphasize that I agree with the notion that tumblr should also have NSFW content. However, advertisers exhibit extreme sensitivity towards their brand being associated with anything even remotely detrimental, and they are inclined to swiftly disassociate themselves without hesitation.
    - carimura 3y ago
      well according to the Director of the Dept of Homeland Security (DHS) human trafficking division, the estimated annual global profits are $150B [1]. The total revenue of the MLB is just north of $10B for comparison. Not really applicable given your straw man example but thought it was an interesting fact nonetheless. [1] https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/2022-02/CCHT%20Annual%20Report.pdf https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/2022-02/CCHT%20Annua...
hellomyguys 3y ago
Twitter and Reddit for some reason get a pass from Apple's App Store Guidelines on this. It seems unlikely any other app will be able to have as explicit NSFW content as those two.
evanelias 3y ago
Tumblr's original hockey-stick exponential growth was in 2010-2012, and their traffic peaked in late 2012 - early 2013, quite a few years before the NSFW ban. Even if they won back 100% of the users that exited from the NSFW ban, it would still be less than one-third their peak traffic size. For a little while, Tumblr was a mainstream social network. This was at a time when Twitter didn't even have built-in photo functionality yet, and both Instagram and Pinterest were still tiny / widely unknown. Those mainstream users probably aren't coming back. Say what you will about having a ton of "normies" and brands on your platform, but it's not clear if a social network can be profitable (and therefore sustainable) these days without them.
- TeMPOraL 3y ago
  > Say what you will about having a ton of "normies" and brands on your platform, but it's not clear if a social network can be profitable (and therefore sustainable) these days without them. Not in the current market environment, no. But it's not "normies" that are the problem - it's the "free service, make money on ads" business model that's the root of the issue. It will, by its very nature, always lead to the so-called "enshittification". And, it's also near-impossible to compete with at scale. So paid social networks just can't work, because a "free with ads" service will trivially outcompete it before it starts to visibly rot. I say current market environment, because there's always that slight hope that some sort of regulatory intervention will kill the "free with ads" model, or at least severely restrict it to level the playing field.
  - ben0x539 3y ago
    > So paid social networks just can't work, because a "free with ads" service will trivially outcompete it before it starts to visibly rot. The "free with ads" service will "outcompete" by immediately being in basically-infinite debt, right? Is that really still "competing"?
photomatt 3y ago
Good news! Since November 2022 we rolled back a lot of the restrictions Verizon had put in place, to now allow for artistic representations of the human form and many things people would consider NSFW: https://www.tumblr.com/staff/699744158019190784/this-is-not-a-drill-our-new-community-guidelines https://www.tumblr.com/staff/699744158019190784/this-is-not-...

paulcole 3y ago

Where does the money come from? I’m assuming it’s more difficult to find ads to run on NSFW content and/or there’s some other reason why monetizing NSFW content is challenging for businesses like Reddit, Tumblr, etc.

rincebrain 3y ago
I believe the specific problem they've claimed before is they'll be banned from the Apple App Store if they do that.
- mmanfrin 3y ago
  Twitter and Reddit both still exist on the app store.
  - philipkglass 3y ago
    Having seen this from the inside, well known platforms get more forgiving treatment from app reviewers even if policies are nominally the same for all apps. If Tumblr launches a new or heavily redesigned app and they have adult content, the review process may block it even if Reddit's app has similarly graphic content.
  - rincebrain 3y ago
    Oh, I know. But they are correct that the policies state that this is the case, even though Tumblr does still have quite a bit of porn, both compliant and not.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

rafark 3y ago

Considering it’s now owned by WordPress it’s very unlikely. Matt mullenweg seems to be very prude (not that it’s a good or bad thing, it’s just a personality I guess). They could capitalize on all the weirdness and discontent from twitter and reddit like zuckerberg is doing.

colinplamondon 3y ago
Allowing porn monetizes and aids a probabilistic percentage of revenge porn, child porn, deepfake porn, and human trafficking. Even if a waiver is signed, there's significant duress in many cases. There's a lot of pain and evil enabled by allowing porn to spread on an algorithmic newsfeed.
- jackblemming 3y ago
  And people can beat people with baseball bats instead of playing baseball. Unless you have quantifiable numbers, no real discussion can be had. In the absence of numbers, I’m for allowing the purchase of baseball bats.
  - BudaDude 3y ago
    From the perspective of advertisers, this analogy is not applicable. It is important to emphasize that I agree with the notion that tumblr should also have NSFW content. However, advertisers exhibit extreme sensitivity towards their brand being associated with anything even remotely detrimental, and they are inclined to swiftly disassociate themselves without hesitation.
  - carimura 3y ago
    well according to the Director of the Dept of Homeland Security (DHS) human trafficking division, the estimated annual global profits are $150B [1]. The total revenue of the MLB is just north of $10B for comparison. Not really applicable given your straw man example but thought it was an interesting fact nonetheless. [1] https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/2022-02/CCHT%20Annual%20Report.pdf https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/2022-02/CCHT%20Annua...

hellomyguys 3y ago

Twitter and Reddit for some reason get a pass from Apple's App Store Guidelines on this. It seems unlikely any other app will be able to have as explicit NSFW content as those two.

evanelias 3y ago

Tumblr's original hockey-stick exponential growth was in 2010-2012, and their traffic peaked in late 2012 - early 2013, quite a few years before the NSFW ban. Even if they won back 100% of the users that exited from the NSFW ban, it would still be less than one-third their peak traffic size. For a little while, Tumblr was a mainstream social network. This was at a time when Twitter didn't even have built-in photo functionality yet, and both Instagram and Pinterest were still tiny / widely unknown. Those mainstream users probably aren't coming back. Say what you will about having a ton of "normies" and brands on your platform, but it's not clear if a social network can be profitable (and therefore sustainable) these days without them.

TeMPOraL 3y ago
> Say what you will about having a ton of "normies" and brands on your platform, but it's not clear if a social network can be profitable (and therefore sustainable) these days without them. Not in the current market environment, no. But it's not "normies" that are the problem - it's the "free service, make money on ads" business model that's the root of the issue. It will, by its very nature, always lead to the so-called "enshittification". And, it's also near-impossible to compete with at scale. So paid social networks just can't work, because a "free with ads" service will trivially outcompete it before it starts to visibly rot. I say current market environment, because there's always that slight hope that some sort of regulatory intervention will kill the "free with ads" model, or at least severely restrict it to level the playing field.
- ben0x539 3y ago
  > So paid social networks just can't work, because a "free with ads" service will trivially outcompete it before it starts to visibly rot. The "free with ads" service will "outcompete" by immediately being in basically-infinite debt, right? Is that really still "competing"?

photomatt 3y ago

Good news! Since November 2022 we rolled back a lot of the restrictions Verizon had put in place, to now allow for artistic representations of the human form and many things people would consider NSFW: https://www.tumblr.com/staff/699744158019190784/this-is-not-a-drill-our-new-community-guidelines https://www.tumblr.com/staff/699744158019190784/this-is-not-...