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If you remain friendly I'm willing to continue our conversation. What if we tried an approach with examples. What field as example is a social science to you?

by xkcd1963 3y ago

dahart 3y ago
Good. Would you mind reviewing the thread and answering some of the many questions I’ve asked that you haven’t answered? Specifically, for one, please define “science”, so we can get to the question of what is and what is not science. The claim that social science is not science is yours to justify. A list of social sciences is in the Wikipedia article I linked to already. Sociology and Anthropology would be good representative examples.
- xkcd1963 3y ago
  https://www.thoughtco.com/is-anthropology-a-science-3971060 https://www.thoughtco.com/is-anthropology-a-science-3971060 https://www.yourarticlelibrary.com/sociology/sociology-is-sociology-a-branch-of-science-answered/6252#:~:text=Sociology%20is%20not%20a%20science%20because%20it%20can't%20make,it%20is%20abstract%20in%20nature https://www.yourarticlelibrary.com/sociology/sociology-is-so.... http://cognitionandculture.net/blogs/benson-salers-blog/anthropology-is-not-a-science-says-the-aaa/ http://cognitionandculture.net/blogs/benson-salers-blog/anth... https://etiennefd.substack.com/p/the-difference-between-science-and https://etiennefd.substack.com/p/the-difference-between-scie... I define science as anything that is scientifically rigorous. That does not include humanities or social sciences, arts, philosophy, history etc. Social science is not a science (I could agree on field of study) because there are too many possibilities involved in human psyche. "“Many researchers fail to consider that their measurements of brains, behavior and self-reported experience are profoundly influenced by their subjects' culture, class and experience, as well as by the situation in which the research is conducted,”" An example of how social science can be dangerous is of how many people take the "Milgram experiment " canon, Eugenics, IQ, Social Darwinism, ... policy making based on social science studies .. It all goes into the same basket to me.
  - dahart 3y ago
    > I define science as anything that is scientifically rigorous That's not a definition, it's a circular statement with no information. Please provide a real and functional definition that can be used to identify whether a subject is scientifically rigorous or not. Your first link confirms that Anthropology is science. Your second link is false information content spam with no sources. People can and do experiment on society, the article we're commenting on is an example, the claim highlighted is obviously false. Your third link is outdated non-news - the AAA put the word science back in their statement the following year. Your fourth link is talking about humanities and not social science. This is another Gish Gallop of non-evidence that fails to support your claim. How many possibilities are involved in the stars or the earth or in chemistry or biology? Why does the number of possibilities have anything to do with whether a subject is science or not? Please explain. Here's a list of research papers from multiple fields, some are scientific and some are not. Can you identify which ones are not science and which field they belong to? If it’s not science, say why. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-26131-z https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-26131-z https://arxiv.org/abs/2203.17207 https://arxiv.org/abs/2203.17207 https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2220570120 https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2220570120 https://arxiv.org/abs/2104.12597 https://arxiv.org/abs/2104.12597 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-022-33957-8 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-022-33957-8 https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.add5462 https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.add5462 https://arxiv.org/abs/2307.02820 https://arxiv.org/abs/2307.02820 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-26560-w https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-26560-w https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2300166120 https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2300166120
    - xkcd1963 3y ago
      > That's not a definition, it's a circular statement with no information. Common man do you want me to copy-paste the definition of science from wikipedia here? You can look it up yourself. My obvious statement is that the problem I see is that some stuff that people want to label as science is not science because it is not rigorous enough. > https://www.thoughtco.com/is-anthropology-a-science-3971060 https://www.thoughtco.com/is-anthropology-a-science-3971060 You can read in the article that people do not agree on whether anthropology is science or not. > https://www.yourarticlelibrary.com/sociology/sociology-is-sociology-a-branch-of-science-answered/6252#:~:text=Sociology%20is%20not%20a%20science%20because%20it%20can't%20make,it%20is%20abstract%20in%20nature https://www.yourarticlelibrary.com/sociology/sociology-is-so... Well here we run into a problem, anything that you don't want to hear is either spam or false information. > http://cognitionandculture.net/blogs/benson-salers-blog/anthropology-is-not-a-science-says-the-aaa/ http://cognitionandculture.net/blogs/benson-salers-blog/anth... Yes but that still shows that people argue about this stuff. This topic is not closed. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-26131-z https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-26131-z => Neuroscience => Science https://arxiv.org/abs/2203.17207 https://arxiv.org/abs/2203.17207 => Mathematics => Science https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2220570120 https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2220570120 => Agricultural Science => Science https://arxiv.org/abs/2104.12597 https://arxiv.org/abs/2104.12597 => Mathematics => Science https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-022-33957-8 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-022-33957-8 => Physics => Science https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.add5462 https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.add5462 => Hydrology => Science https://arxiv.org/abs/2307.02820 https://arxiv.org/abs/2307.02820 => Computer Science => Science https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-26560-w https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-26560-w => nope https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2300166120 https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2300166120 => nope

If you remain friendly I'm willing to continue our conversation. What if we tried an approach with examples. What field as example is a social science to you?

dahart 3y ago

Good. Would you mind reviewing the thread and answering some of the many questions I’ve asked that you haven’t answered? Specifically, for one, please define “science”, so we can get to the question of what is and what is not science. The claim that social science is not science is yours to justify. A list of social sciences is in the Wikipedia article I linked to already. Sociology and Anthropology would be good representative examples.

xkcd1963 3y ago
https://www.thoughtco.com/is-anthropology-a-science-3971060 https://www.thoughtco.com/is-anthropology-a-science-3971060 https://www.yourarticlelibrary.com/sociology/sociology-is-sociology-a-branch-of-science-answered/6252#:~:text=Sociology%20is%20not%20a%20science%20because%20it%20can't%20make,it%20is%20abstract%20in%20nature https://www.yourarticlelibrary.com/sociology/sociology-is-so.... http://cognitionandculture.net/blogs/benson-salers-blog/anthropology-is-not-a-science-says-the-aaa/ http://cognitionandculture.net/blogs/benson-salers-blog/anth... https://etiennefd.substack.com/p/the-difference-between-science-and https://etiennefd.substack.com/p/the-difference-between-scie... I define science as anything that is scientifically rigorous. That does not include humanities or social sciences, arts, philosophy, history etc. Social science is not a science (I could agree on field of study) because there are too many possibilities involved in human psyche. "“Many researchers fail to consider that their measurements of brains, behavior and self-reported experience are profoundly influenced by their subjects' culture, class and experience, as well as by the situation in which the research is conducted,”" An example of how social science can be dangerous is of how many people take the "Milgram experiment " canon, Eugenics, IQ, Social Darwinism, ... policy making based on social science studies .. It all goes into the same basket to me.
- dahart 3y ago
  > I define science as anything that is scientifically rigorous That's not a definition, it's a circular statement with no information. Please provide a real and functional definition that can be used to identify whether a subject is scientifically rigorous or not. Your first link confirms that Anthropology is science. Your second link is false information content spam with no sources. People can and do experiment on society, the article we're commenting on is an example, the claim highlighted is obviously false. Your third link is outdated non-news - the AAA put the word science back in their statement the following year. Your fourth link is talking about humanities and not social science. This is another Gish Gallop of non-evidence that fails to support your claim. How many possibilities are involved in the stars or the earth or in chemistry or biology? Why does the number of possibilities have anything to do with whether a subject is science or not? Please explain. Here's a list of research papers from multiple fields, some are scientific and some are not. Can you identify which ones are not science and which field they belong to? If it’s not science, say why. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-26131-z https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-26131-z https://arxiv.org/abs/2203.17207 https://arxiv.org/abs/2203.17207 https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2220570120 https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2220570120 https://arxiv.org/abs/2104.12597 https://arxiv.org/abs/2104.12597 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-022-33957-8 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-022-33957-8 https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.add5462 https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.add5462 https://arxiv.org/abs/2307.02820 https://arxiv.org/abs/2307.02820 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-26560-w https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-26560-w https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2300166120 https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2300166120
  - xkcd1963 3y ago
    > That's not a definition, it's a circular statement with no information. Common man do you want me to copy-paste the definition of science from wikipedia here? You can look it up yourself. My obvious statement is that the problem I see is that some stuff that people want to label as science is not science because it is not rigorous enough. > https://www.thoughtco.com/is-anthropology-a-science-3971060 https://www.thoughtco.com/is-anthropology-a-science-3971060 You can read in the article that people do not agree on whether anthropology is science or not. > https://www.yourarticlelibrary.com/sociology/sociology-is-sociology-a-branch-of-science-answered/6252#:~:text=Sociology%20is%20not%20a%20science%20because%20it%20can't%20make,it%20is%20abstract%20in%20nature https://www.yourarticlelibrary.com/sociology/sociology-is-so... Well here we run into a problem, anything that you don't want to hear is either spam or false information. > http://cognitionandculture.net/blogs/benson-salers-blog/anthropology-is-not-a-science-says-the-aaa/ http://cognitionandculture.net/blogs/benson-salers-blog/anth... Yes but that still shows that people argue about this stuff. This topic is not closed. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-26131-z https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-26131-z => Neuroscience => Science https://arxiv.org/abs/2203.17207 https://arxiv.org/abs/2203.17207 => Mathematics => Science https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2220570120 https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2220570120 => Agricultural Science => Science https://arxiv.org/abs/2104.12597 https://arxiv.org/abs/2104.12597 => Mathematics => Science https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-022-33957-8 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-022-33957-8 => Physics => Science https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.add5462 https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.add5462 => Hydrology => Science https://arxiv.org/abs/2307.02820 https://arxiv.org/abs/2307.02820 => Computer Science => Science https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-26560-w https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-26560-w => nope https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2300166120 https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2300166120 => nope